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Post by carl on Oct 31, 2019 17:13:01 GMT -5
No, I wouldn’t outsource before leaving but I would need to know there was somebody that would have me when I did leave. Does somebody have you now, carl? I have company now. It felt like a long time before I met my wife. I remember struggling at times with loneliness before i met her. I would be almost completely alone if I left. I don’t know how easily I’d meet people. Maybe I’d snatch at the first woman and make a mistake again. It seems like a tough world of dating out there from what I remember and I feel like I could easily fail. I don’t want to outsource as such but I feel like I need to test the water. Feels like the unknown.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 31, 2019 22:19:11 GMT -5
Does somebody have you now, carl ? I have company now. It felt like a long time before I met my wife. I remember struggling at times with loneliness before i met her. I would be almost completely alone if I left. I don’t know how easily I’d meet people. Maybe I’d snatch at the first woman and make a mistake again. It seems like a tough world of dating out there from what I remember and I feel like I could easily fail. I don’t want to outsource as such but I feel like I need to test the water. Feels like the unknown. It can be helpful to break things down into manageable pieces though. You won't solve your entire life in a single act. You said initially that you wouldn't leave until you were sure somebody has you. Adding to that, you are now saying "make a mistake again" (I presume the first mistake was your existing partner) Are you saying that being in a sexless marriage, you don't feel lonely? Intensely lonely even, unloved, unwanted? Because that would be a really common result from that. Before we really get into what happens next, why not first dial in on exactly what's happening now. You won't leave until you are sure somebody has you - I assume is based on the presumption that somebody has you now. But is that the case? I have a close separation with my ex-wife. We talk fairly often, but at this point - she doesn't "have me" and I don't "have her". And I likely never did, because I don't think she actually ever wanted to be married to me. So, back to you... most people seem to find themselves in a celibate marriage because they partner is not into them. Their partner doesn't have them or want them - not like that. So if the reticence is based on a fear of a loss of the unique romantic attraction you share - where you have each other - and you are in a celibate marriage - that attraction is already gone. Long gone, to the point of active aversion, overriding her own sex drive.
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Post by isthisit on Nov 1, 2019 1:53:49 GMT -5
Does somebody have you now, carl ? I have company now. It felt like a long time before I met my wife. I remember struggling at times with loneliness before i met her. I would be almost completely alone if I left. I don’t know how easily I’d meet people. Maybe I’d snatch at the first woman and make a mistake again. It seems like a tough world of dating out there from what I remember and I feel like I could easily fail. I don’t want to outsource as such but I feel like I need to test the water. Feels like the unknown. carl I think what you wrote is very brave and your feelings of trepidation are very common amongst the community here. There are lots of folks (more than half men would be my guess see other threads for these thoughts) still in their deal and terribly unhappy yet paralysed for fear of the unknown. As someone who made the leap 10 months ago I can tell you these things: Have I felt lonely? Yes, a lot actually, but not as lonely as within my pseudo-marriage. Is the unknown scary? Absolutely! But not as scary as the certainty of more emotionally empty years within my SM. Where will I meet people? Well, I made the choice to remain single as I wanted to stabilise my ship and process the choices I made to stay in, come to terms with the effects on me, remember who I was/am to become the best me I can be waaaay before embarking on a new relationship. It’s hard, lonely at times and super worthwhile. I won’t be that person who needs to be in a relationship to prop them self up. (H is doing this and crashes with each rejection it’s really sad to see.) If you choose a different path take a look at dating sites, they are over run with folks in their 40’s seeking someone. You have much to offer please don’t let fear of the unknown keep you in your deal if you are unhappy. Ensuring unhappiness to avoid potential unhappiness makes no sense my friend. Oh, and you may be interested to know that opportunity came knocking recently. A rather lovely man appeared out of the blue- and there was I all ‘shit sorted out’ and single 😊. It’s early days yet but hey, if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone. Be brave.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 1, 2019 10:38:30 GMT -5
In reading all of your posts- most of you continue down the same vein- your reasons for STAYING. This is not the question. What will it take for you to LEAVE? For those of you with wives struggling with significant illnesses- I’m gathering that nothing will make you leave. That’s a perfectly valid answer. The right woman. Is that what you have right now, then? If not, who is the right woman going to see when she looks at you, if you are a married man?
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Post by saarinista on Nov 1, 2019 14:10:01 GMT -5
Does somebody have you now, carl ? I have company now. It felt like a long time before I met my wife. I remember struggling at times with loneliness before i met her. I would be almost completely alone if I left. I don’t know how easily I’d meet people. Maybe I’d snatch at the first woman and make a mistake again. It seems like a tough world of dating out there from what I remember and I feel like I could easily fail. I don’t want to outsource as such but I feel like I need to test the water. Feels like the unknown. carl , time to do what many of us need to do: shore up your network of friends external to your marriage. So many of us in SM's tend to isolate, which makes leaving the marriage all the more difficult. But everyone needs friend! Unless your're the unibomber or some other type of dangerous loner, and I don't get that vibe from you. LOL We all need friends and social lives. Yes, even you introverts out there! Just like extroverts need quiet alone time too. Support systems are very important.
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Post by flounder on Nov 1, 2019 20:57:34 GMT -5
Is that what you have right now, then? If not, who is the right woman going to see when she looks at you, if you are a married man? Food for thought.
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Post by baza on Nov 1, 2019 22:17:41 GMT -5
I think that if you are afraid of being alone, then that pretty much puts the kybosh on any chance you might have of getting out of your ILIASM deal.
If you are not pretty comfortable within yourself and predominantly with your own company (plus your support network) then .... (a) - you aren't going to make much of a fist of being single for a while (b) - you are not going to be presenting as a person who's got their shit sorted out Both these things would work against you.
As ever, I think these situations require YOU to get YOUR shit sorted out. Particular your fear level in respect to loneliness That's where it starts and ends.
If you get your own shit together, heaps of other things sort themself out too. And those difficult choices you may have concerning your present ILIASM situation will be handled way better from a position of having your own shit sorted out, and bringing the authentic you to the table.
Thing is, that this is no short term project. Sorting out your stuff takes time, and the clock is running.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 2, 2019 10:09:42 GMT -5
I think that if you are afraid of being alone, then that pretty much puts the kybosh on any chance you might have of getting out of your ILIASM deal. If you are not pretty comfortable within yourself and predominantly with your own company (plus your support network) then .... (a) - you aren't going to make much of a fist of being single for a while (b) - you are not going to be presenting as a person who's got their shit sorted out Both these things would work against you. As ever, I think these situations require YOU to get YOUR shit sorted out. Particular your fear level in respect to loneliness That's where it starts and ends. If you get your own shit together, heaps of other things sort themself out too. And those difficult choices you may have concerning your present ILIASM situation will be handled way better from a position of having your own shit sorted out, and bringing the authentic you to the table. Thing is, that this is no short term project. Sorting out your stuff takes time, and the clock is running. I'd add, getting one's shit sorted out doesn't have to wait until their fingers slip from the cliff edge and they split. Taking stock of the habits of the most successful divorced friends, and doing those things, chances are those benefits may be applied within or overlap his present relationship, such as it is. I wouldn't make any hopeful predictions that would result in a change of heart from the person who shares his household presently, but I imagine it would balance the power books more, and would make him a more attractive person in general. A headstart.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 2, 2019 14:09:16 GMT -5
Does somebody have you now, carl? I have company now. It felt like a long time before I met my wife. I remember struggling at times with loneliness before i met her. I would be almost completely alone if I left. I don’t know how easily I’d meet people. Maybe I’d snatch at the first woman and make a mistake again. It seems like a tough world of dating out there from what I remember and I feel like I could easily fail. I don’t want to outsource as such but I feel like I need to test the water. Feels like the unknown. All marriages end in death or divorce so whether or not you divorce now, you may end up single. Thus it would be wise to take actions now that expand your network of friends. Don’t rely only on your wife for your social activities and friendships. Do things that enrich your life and allow you to feel better about yourself. Don’t base your work on whether a woman chooses to love you.
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Post by carl on Nov 13, 2019 15:31:54 GMT -5
I have company now. It felt like a long time before I met my wife. I remember struggling at times with loneliness before i met her. I would be almost completely alone if I left. I don’t know how easily I’d meet people. Maybe I’d snatch at the first woman and make a mistake again. It seems like a tough world of dating out there from what I remember and I feel like I could easily fail. I don’t want to outsource as such but I feel like I need to test the water. Feels like the unknown. All marriages end in death or divorce so whether or not you divorce now, you may end up single. Thus it would be wise to take actions now that expand your network of friends. Don’t rely only on your wife for your social activities and friendships. Do things that enrich your life and allow you to feel better about yourself. Don’t base your work on whether a woman chooses to love you. They are very nice words. And wise too I guess. I separated my mind from my marriage, as much as I could, for a few weeks and it felt very strange. I felt unbalanced and too masculine for want of a better description. It made me doubt my ability or independence. Really felt like I was vulnerable. But I am not. Or maybe I am. Having more friends would help maybe and I’ve let that go for ages. So I am not as independent as I thought. Feels very strange.
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Post by saarinista on Nov 14, 2019 1:06:48 GMT -5
Truth is, we ALL are vulnerable. None of us control everything. Some of us control almost NOTHING. That's life!
Sadly, many men, especially, feel societal pressure to act like they know everything, do everything and can fix everything. That is unfortunate because no one can meet those standards and no one should feel like they have to.
Women fall prey to the superwoman archetype too.
All of us need embrace our innate human imperfection and get over our impossible standards. And that includes me! I am as hard on myself for making mistakes as anyone. It's ridiculous and does no good.
We all need help. We all need friends. No one can do it all alone.
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Post by Handy on Nov 14, 2019 2:19:43 GMT -5
saarinista .....do everything and can fix everything. That is sort of me but I let the doctors do the medial stuff. :grin: We all need help. We all need friends. No one can do it all alone. That is so correct.
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Post by Handy on Apr 2, 2020 1:08:30 GMT -5
This series of videos sheds some light on the origin of sexual differences and its problems.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 6, 2020 11:00:11 GMT -5
This series of videos sheds some light on the origin of sexual differences and its problems. Capitalism? Dr. Fraad's seems ideologically possessed, framing this interpersonal discussion as some kind of Marxist-Feminist struggle. I don't see a lot of value in these videos, but maybe I'm missing what you are seeing. Maybe you can share what part of it you found to be helpful or insightful.
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Post by bozodeclowne on Apr 6, 2020 12:19:05 GMT -5
I think I'm in the leaving eventually camp, with the stated goal of first getting my shit together, and launching our youngest (16) child. That said, what would it take for me to leave right now?
1. Confirmation of infidelity. Nothing recent, but there have been a couple of situations over the years where I do wonder. There is enough smoke that my gut tells me there must be fire, and on those 4am trips to the bathroom these thoughts often intrude. They were the catalyst that got me really thinking about the totality of our relationship, researching on the web and at some point discovering ILIASM. Any evidence of infidelity is long gone, so absent an admission I will likely never know the truth. If my suspicions were to be somehow confirmed, my "Eventually" timeline would transform to "Today".
Sitting here, I don't know that I have a concrete #2, 3 or 4. Now that my eyes are open, I have noticed a trajectory that I think will cause me to say "enough" sooner than later. The SM was one thing, but the complete removal of affection, touching, etc. is another level. It took me a couple of months to notice, but once my eyes were open to that I started to see other things. The very latest is a propensity for my wife to "talk over" me or show signs of frustration if I have a differing opinion. It often seems to me she wants to talk "at me", and not really have a conversation at all. She has always been talkative in the extreme, but this sort of behavior is new. Mixed in with that is talk of plans for when we are empty-nesters, what we would do if one or both lost jobs in this downturn, etc. So confusing.
Am I just picking up on this now that my radar is up, or am I experiencing a sort of confirmation bias? I don't know. Either way, I'm having a hard time keeping a lid on the resentment.
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