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Post by carl on Jan 6, 2020 19:10:25 GMT -5
Hi It’s a horrible situation. And I am sorry to hear it. From what you say, it sounds to me that your wife doesn’t think you are worth it. If that is the case I would be scrutinising her same worth. You are equal.
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endthegame
Junior Member

Posts: 96
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Jan 21, 2020 14:26:17 GMT -5
Maybe rethink your term "Walking out".
You can leave, separate, end the marriage. This does not mean you "walk out" of your obligation and contact with your family and children.
Your rhetoric leans towards ending the marriage in terms of abandonment. This is not the case. You can empower yourself by re-framing your relationship. This allows you to see things from a holistic perspective.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 17:52:00 GMT -5
northstarmom , my W cares about my health but won't do anything about what I would like to happen. My point to alwaysdenied is a person can "care" but not be willing to make the major changes. They can care but just not see sex as important. If it's not important to them, I'm convinced they don't see why it would be a big deal to anyone. My W has said (way back when I brought it up) the phrase, "It's JUST sex!?" on a number of occasions. You also have to hold out the baza-factor. It's not that they're asexual, they're just asexual with you. It's a fair point that you have to wrestle with to make your stay-leave decision.
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Post by Handy on Jan 21, 2020 20:20:48 GMT -5
@tooyoungtobeold, I quit expecting almost everything from my W. She invents problems, like the time there was no sex for many months. She said she couldn't keep up with me doing it 3 times a day.
What is with 3 times a day when it was between 3 and 6 months since we had sex. Yea, she invents problems in many areas.
I invited the investment club (6 guys) to my house for the Feb 2020 meeting. We will use the dining area. My W is talking a new TV for her bedroom. I have a TV in my bedroom I don't use that she COULD watch for 1.5 hrs. with a local antenna. I am not running the cable TV cable for her 1.5 hour of TV watching. Some people think they are entitled to be indulged in their every wish like they were a king or queen. I am not playing that game anymore.
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Post by alwaysdenied on Feb 7, 2020 9:14:32 GMT -5
It's been a month since I found this site and wrote this post. No sex has happened since then. I've spent this time giving our marriage a real look.
I have come to the realization that it's not the denial of sex that is the problem. Denial of sex is a side effect for the many problems my wife has. It's the result of her hating who she is. Always in a rage and in battle with herself. She's consumed with HERSELF with little to no room for me or kids honestly. She's the ultimate narcissist. Even if she is consumed with hating herself, it's still all about her. Every waking second spent reading self help books, dieting, working, raging, hating. There are good times for sure, but they don't last more than a few days. Even when she is doing things for our boys or me, it's always either because she is trying to make herself look better to go up in social status or it's because she's trying to get something out of us to do for her. Mostly to be seen positively in the eyes of others though.
I realize I don't even like my wife anymore. I don't know why I've even stayed in this marriage for 20+ years. Counting year after year with hope that something will change. I love my wife but don't really like her. Without counseling and possibly psychiatric help, I never see her changing. Sadly, I think I'm going to be in the protecting myself phase of divorce. No idea how long leaving will take because I want to be prepared and my life in order with a case to keep my boys since I wouldn't leave them with her.
Sex with her is the least of my problems going forward.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 10, 2020 0:13:44 GMT -5
alwaysdenied your post reminds me of my theorem that often, we're not so much in SEXLESS marriages as we are in simply BAD marriages. Some of us are married to people with mental issues such as poor self image, low-self esteem, people still angry with their parents who project the anger on an unwitting spouse, or people struggling with sexual inhibitions due to their childhood anti-sex inculcation who are unwilling to work through the shame. Some of us married people who seemed sexually interested/interesting at the beginning, but then changed a few years in. Some of us married people because we thought the unsexual parts of the relationship (values, intellectual compatibility, etc.) were good enough to carry us through a lifetime, then over time realized that we really were not that compatible and therefore end up feeling sexually turned off by them. Or vice versa. There are many things that make someone sexy. Sex doesn't exist in a vaccum. Not in a marriage, at least. A marriage is a complicated, long-term contractual partnership combining financial, emotional, (often) parental, psychosocial and intellectual aspects. When one or more of those things go wrong, marital sex usually starts seeming like a bad idea. At that point, you don't have a sexless marriage. You have a bad marriage. The missing sex is usually only one part of the bad. Fix the other bad things and the sex MIGHT return. But you can't fix the lack of sex without addressing the other underlying issues. IMHO.
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Post by Handy on Feb 10, 2020 0:31:01 GMT -5
Saarinista
At that point, you don't have a sexless marriage. You have a bad marriage. The missing sex is usually only one part of the bad.
So true. It is a wise observation. Congratulations on your wisdom.
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Post by baza on Feb 10, 2020 2:13:47 GMT -5
Saarinista
At that point, you don't have a sexless marriage. You have a bad marriage. The missing sex is usually only one part of the bad.So true. It is a wise observation. Congratulations on your wisdom. Nail on the head in this post. Most cases in here are just bad marriages. And in bad marriages there is rarely any sex happening, or if there is any, it is pretty ordinary. Oftentimes in here members claim that "everything is great bar the sex". Yet, their narrative invariably describes a bad marriage in which (unsurprisingly) there's not even any sex.
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 10, 2020 6:41:18 GMT -5
It's been a month since I found this site and wrote this post. No sex has happened since then. I've spent this time giving our marriage a real look. I have come to the realization that it's not the denial of sex that is the problem. Denial of sex is a side effect for the many problems my wife has. It's the result of her hating who she is. Always in a rage and in battle with herself. She's consumed with HERSELF with little to no room for me or kids honestly. She's the ultimate narcissist. Even if she is consumed with hating herself, it's still all about her. Every waking second spent reading self help books, dieting, working, raging, hating. There are good times for sure, but they don't last more than a few days. Even when she is doing things for our boys or me, it's always either because she is trying to make herself look better to go up in social status or it's because she's trying to get something out of us to do for her. Mostly to be seen positively in the eyes of others though. I realize I don't even like my wife anymore. I don't know why I've even stayed in this marriage for 20+ years. Counting year after year with hope that something will change. I love my wife but don't really like her. Without counseling and possibly psychiatric help, I never see her changing. Sadly, I think I'm going to be in the protecting myself phase of divorce. No idea how long leaving will take because I want to be prepared and my life in order with a case to keep my boys since I wouldn't leave them with her. Sex with her is the least of my problems going forward. Real good to see the intellectualizing going on. I went hardcore in December of 2015. My wife became my psychological study subject. I was able to unattach and observe her as a disinterested party. Fortunately, able to switch back to devoted husband, back and forth. You spoke earlier of "the red pill" and that worried me a little. I don't think you meant it this way, but there is a very unhealthy contingent on the internets that identify their involuntary celibacy (incel) with that phrase. These men are mostly a bit unbalanced; converting their frustration with women into varying levels of hatred. (Suspicion, resentment, demonizing callousness.) Hopefully you don't go that route. Stick around and you may find a great deal going on in the realm of sexuality that goes undiscussed in polite society. The animal nature of people manifests in ILIASM.org as the refused (typically male) side, but looking into what makes a refuser tick (e.g. "Coolidge Effect") can actually be a pretty good salve for the refused. It provides a sense of calm and purpose that seeks solutions without anger. One important thing I'd like to point out is that narcissists classically like themselves very much. Your wife doesn't qualify as you say she engages in self-loathing and thinks she's ugly. She may merely have the "self-centered" part. My daughter had a lot of this aggravating trait and was constantly seeking out immediate gratification. It would lead her to spend money she didn't have, disregarding pleasant activities that she could afford and wishing constant command of group situations to cater to her preferences, chafing when she made herself indulge others. Might she have clinical depression? It is wretchedly named. It isn't sadness alone. It isn't depression you or I get. It's a wicked stew of sadness, fatigue, and rage. (maybe I'm leaving something out.) You paint a picture where she has a pretty full, active life, yet feels deprived (rage). Sadness and anger are not conducive to the relaxed, content, secure feelings that get the typical female in an amorous mood. Antidepressants may dampen libido further, if she's on them. (or it's just a symptom of the depression untouched by the drug?) Nothing is good enough. Life always sucks. And there you are, always "pestering" her. Yeah, that's a tough nut to crack. Woe to you that suggest clinical depression as a cause to her well reasoned, rational observations that her life is manure! In your specific case, nothing you describe suggests your kids would not be left alone with her. A court won't find her an unfit mother. So divorce will mean them being with her alone some of the time, my best guess. My youngest is 19. If my wife chooses to leave me when (if?) I begin to outsource, she likely wouldn't live with us long. I started the process of outsourcing in 2017, neglecting my wife in the process. Big mistake. I corrected it and now demonstrate more affection and consideration than before I first confronted her. Treating her well and giving her all the husband companionship she wants without imposing the unwanted sex part is providing me with a cleaner conscience as I contemplate outsourcing. She wants the romance, but not the sex. Okay. You got it babe. If she leaves me because I get the bad part somewhere else, that's on her. She'll be leaving me because she doesn't want me to be happy, not because I make HER unhappy. Maybe you'll want to soften your anger with her similarly? For your own sake?
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endthegame
Junior Member

Posts: 96
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Feb 10, 2020 13:33:27 GMT -5
Have a look at the "Shrink for men" website, lots of info about being with a narc wife on there. Read extensively, this sexless thing is one strand in a larger tapestry of a shit marriage it seems.
Good luck
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Post by alwaysdenied on Jul 1, 2020 12:10:47 GMT -5
UPDATE!!!!
Not sure what I'm supposed to do with this post but didn't want to 'abandon' the site. My wife has serious mental problems. They aren't the same as the people out there shouting at cars in the intersection mental problems, however they are there and ruining her life and by extension me. I am just enduring it for the time being. She gets angry all the time over nothing and even on vacation can't get any relaxation because she can't vacation away from herself. She's done pretty good at drinking almost a bottle of wine a night and semi making a fool of herself by being an even meaner drunk than her normal awful self. Meanwhile I parent the kids and do all the difficult stuff. I don't do it for US, I do it for my kids who will be out of the house in 4 yrs. I won't be the one who throws the grenade, but I also won't be the one falling on any grenades thrown by her either. As far as sex goes, I don't even care anymore. The last time was awful because I knew the only reason she obliged was because she thinks it 'fixes' me and keeps me there. So I couldn't even keep it up. It's part of growing older I'm sure but honestly it was looking at her all starfish posed and the look of hurry up and get this over that I just really turned off.
We have good times too, but those are sandwiched between out of the blue outbursts that makes you feel like you're handling some unstable solution from some terrorist bomb maker. I realize this started off as needing to be in a sex forum, but now I'm just hoping I can make it these last 4 years or that she'll finally make good on her threats and walk. At this point, I really have to remain detached to my 'feelings' on the matter. Sex or thoughts of sex cover up a ton of shortcomings from your partner. Once you release yourself from that, other things start to come into focus. I've started to notice that the few bad times mixed with mostly good times has changed over to about 70/30% bad to good. I suggested a therapist and she genuinely looked up one to talk to. She even did 1 session and I encouraged her to speak candidly to the therapist. Unfortunately my W can act totally normal and knows the right things to say, so she feels like she doesn't need counseling because she was able to fool a therapist on their first session. It's not like I don't love her, I do. But for the moment, thinking 4 more years is all I can do to get through it.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 1, 2020 19:25:32 GMT -5
To alwaysdenied, if you are staying 4 more years for the benefit/good of the children, you should rethink that. A tipping point for me that lead to divorce was the day our psychologist said " the two of you are setting a horrible example for your kids of what a loving, giving sharing, intimate, adult relationship ought to be." You can find numerous examples on here of people who divorced and shortly there after the children said " what took you so long, we are glad for you, you are better off". And much better stronger relationships grow between the teens and adults.
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Post by saarinista on Jul 1, 2020 22:10:11 GMT -5
Not only can you fool the therapist for quite a while, but 1 therapy session is NOTHING! It's barely enough to fill out the intake form. Therapy is not a short-term thing in the fast majority of cases. Also, drinking like that is not healthy. Having a drunk mom around kids is unhealthy. A resentment- filled father is not too great for the younguns, either. Living just waiting to get away is creating tension in your house, I guarantee. Four years can be an eternity when you are miserable. Edited to add alwaysdenied I just noticed in an old post that you think she may be attracted to women, not men. Here's what you said: ▶️I have known for a while that even though I doubt she would ever actually engage in a Lesbian relationship or sex that she's one who is turned on by girls. She somewhat validates this by saying she doesn't want me to go down on her because she feels like it's a girl doing it (fantasizing about one anyway).◀️ Now, I don't know why she says that, or if she's actually a lesbian. But it wouldn't be impossible for that to be true. Have you thought about honestly confronting her on that matter? Do you want to be married to someone who is not attracted to people of your gender? That's a really frustrating thing, I suspect.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jul 2, 2020 6:57:10 GMT -5
UPDATE!!!! Not sure what I'm supposed to do with this post but didn't want to 'abandon' the site. My wife has serious mental problems. They aren't the same as the people out there shouting at cars in the intersection mental problems, however they are there and ruining her life and by extension me. I am just enduring it for the time being. She gets angry all the time over nothing and even on vacation can't get any relaxation because she can't vacation away from herself. She's done pretty good at drinking almost a bottle of wine a night and semi making a fool of herself by being an even meaner drunk than her normal awful self. Meanwhile I parent the kids and do all the difficult stuff. I don't do it for US, I do it for my kids who will be out of the house in 4 yrs. I won't be the one who throws the grenade, but I also won't be the one falling on any grenades thrown by her either. As far as sex goes, I don't even care anymore. The last time was awful because I knew the only reason she obliged was because she thinks it 'fixes' me and keeps me there. So I couldn't even keep it up. It's part of growing older I'm sure but honestly it was looking at her all starfish posed and the look of hurry up and get this over that I just really turned off. We have good times too, but those are sandwiched between out of the blue outbursts that makes you feel like you're handling some unstable solution from some terrorist bomb maker. I realize this started off as needing to be in a sex forum, but now I'm just hoping I can make it these last 4 years or that she'll finally make good on her threats and walk. At this point, I really have to remain detached to my 'feelings' on the matter. Sex or thoughts of sex cover up a ton of shortcomings from your partner. Once you release yourself from that, other things start to come into focus. I've started to notice that the few bad times mixed with mostly good times has changed over to about 70/30% bad to good. I suggested a therapist and she genuinely looked up one to talk to. She even did 1 session and I encouraged her to speak candidly to the therapist. Unfortunately my W can act totally normal and knows the right things to say, so she feels like she doesn't need counseling because she was able to fool a therapist on their first session. It's not like I don't love her, I do. But for the moment, thinking 4 more years is all I can do to get through it. I won't wish you luck. It'd be a disservice. BTW, if she's working on substance abuse, she's already taking an antidepressant and maybe she'll consider taking one that isn't as addictive and doesn't have the opposite long term effects alcohol does. tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/mbknav/all-the-reasons-you-shouldnt-drink-when-youre-depressed - Widespread use in self-medication - acts on the NMDA for short-term antidepressant effect. Potentially for lengthy periods if drunkenness is maintained, Side effects make it a poor (expensive) debilitiating choice. Lack of prescription being a key advantage for those who are uninsured. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0024320506004619 ...PET-scan studies in brains of tobacco smokers have shown a decrease in monoamine oxidase (MAO) activity, which reverts to control level when they quit smoking...subjects with Type II alcoholism have been reported to show a similar decrease in MAO activity that reverses when they cease to use alcohol. In short, alcohol's appeal is it makes troubles melt away, but it boomerang's back as a depressant, leaving you feel crappier. It also sabotages sleep. Insomnia is a mood demolishing plague. Sleep aids replace sleep with anesthesia. It's not the same. If she's up for it, trained listeners are available free of charge at numerous sites. Perhaps she'd like to vent her frustrations with you and her terrible, terrible life with one of them. They also offer paid services, but the listeners can be had at virtually any hour every day, so she can try them on a lark, when her whimsy moves her. 7CupsOfTea (chat with a listener free Blah Therapy (amateurs try to help, free of charge - beware of trolls, plenty lurk here) Chatzy (chat rooms - often filled with good Samaritans - moderated rooms keep trolls to a minimum (free)) iPrevail (Speaking with trained listeners is free. Links at: sites.google.com/view/eltheacenter/online-resources?authuser=0
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Post by Handy on Jul 4, 2020 17:32:39 GMT -5
I was just reading the "deadbedroom"(DB) over on Reddit.
Alwaysdenied, you need to be 25 yrs old again. Many of the women on DB are complaining about no sex for several years and leaving their live in BF.
What is the world coming to? Sperm and ejaculate counts down, more and more men with diabetes and men playing XBox instead of having sex with their women.
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