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Post by scullion on Nov 15, 2020 1:35:38 GMT -5
Yes and she snores like hell anyway
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Post by rejectedbeauty on Nov 26, 2020 0:36:58 GMT -5
Wow, I thought I was alone in this. Its so sad. My H wont touch or hug me unless I ask. Even if I lay on his chest he will not touch me unless I ask. I am sooooo over the lack of intimacy, no romance, definitely no sex but demanding that I act like he's doing his job. I'm to the point where I actually get offended when he plays those stupid sex rap songs and sings along like hes doing ANY of it to or with me.
I've completely lost my self confidence and feel like no one would want me at all. Like I'm completely un-attractive and definitely un-loved. He does NOT care about my needs at all. As a matter of fact he's told me point black that if I need sex I can leave and never come back. I feel like I've been trapped in hell. HOW DO PEOPLLE LIVE LIKE THIS AND NOT GO INSANE!!
I've got to get out of this.
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Post by baza on Nov 26, 2020 0:57:30 GMT -5
Wow, I thought I was alone in this. Its so sad. My H wont touch or hug me unless I ask. Even if I lay on his chest he will not touch me unless I ask. I am sooooo over the lack of intimacy, no romance, definitely no sex but demanding that I act like he's doing his job. I'm to the point where I actually get offended when he plays those stupid sex rap songs and sings along like hes doing ANY of it to or with me. I've completely lost my self confidence and feel like no one would want me at all. Like I'm completely un-attractive and definitely un-loved. He does NOT care about my needs at all. As a matter of fact he's told me point black that if I need sex I can leave and never come back. I feel like I've been trapped in hell. HOW DO PEOPLLE LIVE LIKE THIS AND NOT GO INSANE!! I've got to get out of this. I was just reading your other post from September last year Sister rejectedbeauty . Welcome back. Your spouse seems to present as a complete dud. Member Sister @elle might be a member who's stories might resonate with you. See how her name appears in pale blue just above ? If you click on it it will take you to her profile page where you will find assorted threads and posts she has made. Could be worth you having a read of them.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Nov 26, 2020 1:41:06 GMT -5
I think that I would have to agree. I feel like for me, the lack of sex was what poisoned the rest. It was the beginning of the corrosion of the rest of the relationship. I started to get depressed over the lack of sex and stopped putting in as much effort in other relational areas. She made more excuses to avoid sex. I did the why chasing and choreplay but ended up getting nowhere so I got resentful and quit doing more things. ... People / therapists love to say there's usually something underlying the lack of sex. Yeah? So what? During the reset, all my wife's bad habits make me shrug. When it's more than a month in between sessions, they grate my nerves. Isn't so much of life pro-and-con? We're often told to use the pros and cons to make important, complex life decisions. When contemplating divorce, sex is on one side or the other. Sex? Major PRO. No sex? Major CON. Like a scale balanced with jellybeans and sex is a bowling ball. You can have a whole mess of jellybeans going against your spouse, but if you're knocking the boots, it might still be no contest. They're a keeper. On the other side, you get "everything's great but the sex" and these refused partners end up here, slowly understanding the spouse may not have enough jellybeans on his/her PRO side no matter how high they're stacked to make up for the misplaced bowling ball. Other issues? Sure. But when you're getting some, you can overlook a lot. I heard someone say once that sex is only 10% of a marital relationship. But when it's missing, its 80% of the problem.
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Post by baza on Nov 26, 2020 3:12:53 GMT -5
I think it was Sister saarinista who observed in a post a month or so ago that really, the vast number of stories in here just tell a story of a plain old bad marriage and, in most instances of a bad marriage, there ain't much sex going on. I think saarinista was/is pretty much on the money.
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Post by curious81 on Nov 28, 2020 14:33:59 GMT -5
Just wondering how many end sleeping in seperate beds or bedrooms. It looks like separate beds is going to be where we are headed very soon. It is difficult to put a figure on this. But as a rough estimate (on what I've read in here and the old EP site) I reckon this happens in about one third of ILIASM situations. It is pretty common. This is interesting, it’s happened to us as well. I snore and keep waking my husband up so now he sleeps in the spare room. At first he would cuddle up to me when we first went to bed and then go to the spare room. Now he just goes straight to the spare room from the living room. The cat now sleeps on the bed with me, which is sweet but somehow makes me feel sadder!
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Post by saarinista on Nov 28, 2020 15:41:59 GMT -5
Where you sleep doesn't really matter as much as your proximity to your spouse when you're awake, and what you do during that time.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 3, 2020 7:11:10 GMT -5
This is interesting, it’s happened to us as well. I snore and keep waking my husband up so now he sleeps in the spare room. At first he would cuddle up to me when we first went to bed and then go to the spare room. Now he just goes straight to the spare room from the living room. The cat now sleeps on the bed with me, which is sweet but somehow makes me feel sadder! Perhaps it'd be counterproductive or even unwanted, but if you miss the cuddling, perhaps you can join him at night or in the morning for that cuddle. You miss it? Get it back. The close contact resulting in possible longing for more may be a drawback not worth the price of admission. That will vary person to person.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 4, 2020 16:16:58 GMT -5
I think that I would have to agree. I feel like for me, the lack of sex was what poisoned the rest. It was the beginning of the corrosion of the rest of the relationship. I started to get depressed over the lack of sex and stopped putting in as much effort in other relational areas. She made more excuses to avoid sex. I did the why chasing and choreplay but ended up getting nowhere so I got resentful and quit doing more things. ... People / therapists love to say there's usually something underlying the lack of sex. Yeah? So what? [...] Isn't so much of life pro-and-con? We're often told to use the pros and cons to make important, complex life decisions. When contemplating divorce, sex is on one side or the other. Sex? Major PRO. No sex? Major CON. But, "So what?" Flip it to your partner's point of view to the reason you aren't having sex - which is because your partner doesn't want to have sex with you. Is it really unimportant? Think of someone in your life - anyone - who you definitely do NOT want to have sex with.A close familial blood-relative A person you absolutely hate or who harmed you. It doesn't matter what it is - you DON'T want to have sex with them. Not indifference, not "why not?". Or think of a circumstance in which you definitely don't want to have sex at all.I dunno - I imagine a chemotherapy treatment, discovery of death of a child, personal injury of some kind or other terrible news. So it then comes down to "Sex with someone who I really want to have sex with and/or don't see as a sexual partner" --- that's not so much of a major PRO. In most circumstances where this is required outside of porn fetishes, this is likely a description of trauma on the face of it. And the absence of sex with someone who I don't want to have sex with might not be a PRO, but likely not a CON either. Treating " who I don't want to have sex with" as a "so what?" ignores the most devastating and irreconcilable part of the conflict. It's not a "so what?" It's everything you need to know to understand how it turns out and what happens next, instead. It dismisses the only possible productive part of the conversation with your partner, and if they don't want to or can't participate in that, it limits your imagination to defining the impasse of insufficient scale - a teachable matter of manners and scheduling. I just don't see that framing being all that successful on these boards. In the context of marriage, sex with someone who I don't want -for the rest of my life- sounds like the Terrible Ending every princess fairy tale is trying to avoid. That's deep rooted stuff.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 4, 2020 16:31:40 GMT -5
This is interesting, it’s happened to us as well. I snore and keep waking my husband up so now he sleeps in the spare room. At first he would cuddle up to me when we first went to bed and then go to the spare room. Now he just goes straight to the spare room from the living room. The cat now sleeps on the bed with me, which is sweet but somehow makes me feel sadder! Perhaps it'd be counterproductive or even unwanted, but if you miss the cuddling, perhaps you can join him at night or in the morning for that cuddle. You miss it? Get it back. The close contact resulting in possible longing for more may be a drawback not worth the price of admission. That will vary person to person. Sadness isn't always something to be avoided, but rather felt and experienced when there is something to be sad about. When my marriage ended, I felt very sad. When my STB ex-wife crawled back into bed with me and was suddenly amenable to initiating some kinds of sex under very specific terms, I was overwhelmed and acquiesced initially. Until... I realized I felt confused and that this was perpetuating a Purgatorial state from which I needed to move. I needed to accept the package of sadness that came with the accurate realization of the state of my relationship. I was sad when I moved to separate beds as well, long prior to the split. But I also felt relative peace. The sadness came from the realization that I had given up trying and I was imagining many possible different futures than I intended.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 7, 2020 7:04:22 GMT -5
People / therapists love to say there's usually something underlying the lack of sex. Yeah? So what? [...] Isn't so much of life pro-and-con? We're often told to use the pros and cons to make important, complex life decisions. When contemplating divorce, sex is on one side or the other. Sex? Major PRO. No sex? Major CON. But, "So what?" Flip it to your partner's point of view to the reason you aren't having sex - which is because your partner doesn't want to have sex with you. Is it really unimportant? ... the absence of sex with someone who I don't want to have sex with might not be a PRO, but likely not a CON either. It dismisses the only possible productive part of the conversation with your partner, and if they don't want to or can't participate in that, it limits your imagination to defining the impasse of insufficient scale - a teachable matter of manners and scheduling. I just don't see that framing being all that successful on these boards... The reasons for the sexlessness can get lumped in to the CON though. Drilling down to the REASON for no sex is "Why chasing" and an awful lot of that work should be done by the refuser. If they please, they can determine the reason, present it to us, and that reason can be added to the stack of PRO or CON. Failure to convey these reasons can be due to secrecy ("I never liked sex with anyone and I've been lying for four years until I got my ring.") or ignorance (I have a hormonal problem that has never occurred to me) or others. Until we know the reason, it cannot be considered in the equation. It's a moot point. Demands for more choreplay? Okay, Likely add that to the CON, but if it really DID result in sex and it's not just a delay tactic? Both the chores and the sex can then be factored in. Flip it, as you say? If choreplay is truly the reason, (*snort*) the refuser can see sex as a CON if they like. But it may be a CON outweighed by the additional household help. That is for the refuser to decide. It sounds insane, but if that really helps, who are we to argue? The "why chasing" can produce a more fleshed out PRO and CON evaluation. We need to know the underlying reasons before it matters that they exist. Sure, the reasons are important. They're critical! But we can't do jack about them without the refuser's cooperation. Y'know. A lot like the sex. If they cannot overcome the reasons, (you look like their abusive ex-spouse), it's not really the reasons that make the marriage bad for the refused, it's the result. The lack of sex. The refused showing up here and saying the sexlessness is the problem may be entirely accurate. To say, "Aha! But your refuser has fifteen reasons the marriage sucks" doesn't refute the refused's assessment (though it may or may not affect our sympathy for him/her/zer) "Everything is great but the sex, on my side. My refusing spouse has a whole truckload of complaints and/or baggage they don't tell me about." could be a more complete assessment of one's sexless marriage? Hidden reasons may not refute the original assessment I see folks denying around here. They may elaborate, but they don't refute.
Dec 4, 2020 16:31:40 GMT -5 apocrypha said: Dec 3, 2020 7:11:10 GMT -5 mirrororchid said:
Perhaps it'd be counterproductive or even unwanted, but if you miss the cuddling, perhaps you can join him at night or in the morning for that cuddle.
You miss it? Get it back.
The close contact resulting in possible longing for more may be a drawback not worth the price of admission. That will vary person to person.
Sadness isn't always something to be avoided, but rather felt and experienced when there is something to be sad about.
When my marriage ended, I felt very sad.
When my STB ex-wife crawled back into bed with me and was suddenly amenable to initiating some kinds of sex under very specific terms, I was overwhelmed and acquiesced initially.
Until... I realized I felt confused and that this was perpetuating a Purgatorial state from which I needed to move.
I needed to accept the package of sadness that came with the accurate realization of the state of my relationship.
I was sad when I moved to separate beds as well, long prior to the split. But I also felt relative peace.
The sadness came from the realization that I had given up trying and I was imagining many possible different futures than I intended.
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Rip the band aid off? I can easily see that being a better choice. Putting off the inevitable delays the new life you need. Assuming that's the case; and it's understandable if that's a dang hard choice. Hard choices become necessary though, sometimes.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 7, 2020 10:11:55 GMT -5
The reasons for the sexlessness can get lumped in to the CON though. Drilling down to the REASON for no sex is "Why chasing" and an awful lot of that work should be done by the refuser. If they please, they can determine the reason, present it to us, and that reason can be added to the stack of PRO or CON. Failure to convey these reasons can be due to secrecy ("I never liked sex with anyone and I've been lying for four years until I got my ring.") or ignorance (I have a hormonal problem that has never occurred to me) or others. Until we know the reason, it cannot be considered in the equation. It's a moot point. It is most certainly NOT a moot point at the closest and most simple degree. I think people have terribly misunderstood that advice. The reason you are not having sex in your marriage is because your partner does not wish to have sex with you. The reason your partner isn't having sex in your marriage is because she does not wish to have sex with you.
The reason your partner doesn't wish to have sex with you enters the realm of why chasing and the rabbit hole of "why chasing". Those are your partner's reasons and not yours. There's no work to be done on the part of the refuser to reach this easy default conclusion. It's the refusing party's work, if they choose it, to articulate a a diagnosis and help with a remedy - but they likely won't. There's no need to overcomplicate all this from a practical perspective by why chasing very far past that first point. Whatever it is though, it's once removed from the immediate reason. Follow it with me, using your example: " She doesn't want to have sex with me." vs " She doesn't want to have sex with me because she never liked sex with anyone and has been lying for years until she got her ring." No difference in terms of what it means. Does it look to stupid? Oversimplified? Compare it vs the usual chaffe, where your more elaborate explanation sites : " She doesn't want to have sex with me."
vs too busy, too bored is on her period, about to have her period, just had her period, is fertile too upset, or doesn't want to spoil a nice night together with something risky - lets cuddle needs more space, or isn't seeing enough of you too fat, too skinny, not feeling sexy, not feeling you are sexy too old isn't sex obsessed - is that all you think about? you did something X years ago - someone else X years ago did something we just HAD sex last night, yesterday, a week ago, a month ago, a season ago, a year ago needs to just do this chore/thing
Skipping past the "She doesn't want to have sex with me" reason about the lack of sex in the marriage ends up like an alcoholic making excuses. It becomes "She is unable to have sex with me because of X." Then you get to be a spouse enduring in a noble cause - something that's happening to the two of you together, rather than the one person she definitely didn't want to have sex with. I agree with you on "why chasing" past that point - a million reasons and proofs and projects can bloom past that point - but those are almost certainly out of your control and ability to remedy with celibacy on this scale. Those are your partner's reasons - and they may or may not do the work to figure that out. Where it intersects with you is "Because my partner doesn't want to do that with me." That reason is worth pausing on to let it soak in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 11:23:17 GMT -5
I think it was Sister saarinista who observed in a post a month or so ago that really, the vast number of stories in here just tell a story of a plain old bad marriage and, in most instances of a bad marriage, there ain't much sex going on. I think saarinista was/is pretty much on the money. I think it's also, at least partly, self fulfilling. Even if the marriage was "mostly ok", as the sex life weighs on one person then the four horsemen can easily ride in.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 7, 2020 17:15:34 GMT -5
I think it was Sister saarinista who observed in a post a month or so ago that really, the vast number of stories in here just tell a story of a plain old bad marriage and, in most instances of a bad marriage, there ain't much sex going on. I think saarinista was/is pretty much on the money. I think saarinista has got it spot on, at least in my case. The more I think and straighten out my problem/story, it's got much less to do with the missing sex and much much more to do with the dreadful state of the marriage in general.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 7, 2020 18:09:28 GMT -5
The reasons for the sexlessness can get lumped in to the CON though. Drilling down to the REASON for no sex is "Why chasing" and an awful lot of that work should be done by the refuser. If they please, they can determine the reason, present it to us, and that reason can be added to the stack of PRO or CON. Failure to convey these reasons can be due to secrecy ("I never liked sex with anyone and I've been lying for four years until I got my ring.") or ignorance (I have a hormonal problem that has never occurred to me) or others. Until we know the reason, it cannot be considered in the equation. It's a moot point. It is most certainly NOT a moot point at the closest and most simple degree. I think people have terribly misunderstood that advice. The reason you are not having sex in your marriage is because your partner does not wish to have sex with you. The reason your partner isn't having sex in your marriage is because she does not wish to have sex with you.
The reason your partner doesn't wish to have sex with you enters the realm of why chasing and the rabbit hole of "why chasing". Those are your partner's reasons and not yours. There's no work to be done on the part of the refuser to reach this easy default conclusion. It's the refusing party's work, if they choose it, to articulate a a diagnosis and help with a remedy - but they likely won't. There's no need to overcomplicate all this from a practical perspective by why chasing very far past that first point. Whatever it is though, it's once removed from the immediate reason. Follow it with me, using your example: " She doesn't want to have sex with me." vs " She doesn't want to have sex with me because she never liked sex with anyone and has been lying for years until she got her ring." No difference in terms of what it means. Does it look to stupid? Oversimplified? Compare it vs the usual chaffe, where your more elaborate explanation sites : " She doesn't want to have sex with me."
vs too busy, too bored is on her period, about to have her period, just had her period, is fertile too upset, or doesn't want to spoil a nice night together with something risky - lets cuddle needs more space, or isn't seeing enough of you too fat, too skinny, not feeling sexy, not feeling you are sexy too old isn't sex obsessed - is that all you think about? you did something X years ago - someone else X years ago did something we just HAD sex last night, yesterday, a week ago, a month ago, a season ago, a year ago needs to just do this chore/thing
Skipping past the "She doesn't want to have sex with me" reason about the lack of sex in the marriage ends up like an alcoholic making excuses. It becomes "She is unable to have sex with me because of X." Then you get to be a spouse enduring in a noble cause - something that's happening to the two of you together, rather than the one person she definitely didn't want to have sex with. I agree with you on "why chasing" past that point - a million reasons and proofs and projects can bloom past that point - but those are almost certainly out of your control and ability to remedy with celibacy on this scale. Those are your partner's reasons - and they may or may not do the work to figure that out. Where it intersects with you is "Because my partner doesn't want to do that with me." That reason is worth pausing on to let it soak in. So... "Everything in the marriage is great except that my partner doesn't want to have sex with me"? I'm missing your point and I know you have one. Is it that people dropping in saying "Everything is great except we're not having sex" aren't fully aware that its due to the spouse not wanting to, for whatever the reason may be? That awareness might well move them along their path to one of the big three solutions Stay, Outsource, or Leave. The added layer that a desire to avoid sex does add clarity to the problem a refused spouse faces. Was that what you were getting at? Cuz I'll concur. Or... maybe I need to ask you to rephrase.
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