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Post by andrew1957 on Jan 13, 2021 12:06:36 GMT -5
I am new on here and so sorry to go straight in, but I am struggling with my situation and could do with some advice. Sorry that by necessity this is quite a long post.
I am aged 63 and have been married for over 36 years. I had a long term girlfriend before I got married and the sex was great, but the relationship was not and it eventually ended. Partly as a result of this experience I became a Christian and a couple of years later met my wife. We seemed well matched as she too had had a prior relationship similar to mine. She was adamant that we should do the right thing and wait until the wedding night and I agreed so we waited. There were no red flags and so there seemed no issue with waiting.
The wedding night came and she made excuses - too tired. I thought fair enough and we did eventually have sex a couple of days later, but that was it throughout the rest of the 14 day honeymoon. I was floored. I always imagined that my honeymoon would be a great experience but instead (although I did not show it) I felt very frustrated and disappointed. When we got back the pattern of life was pretty much that she was always too tired after work and so sex was incredibly rare. Eventually after a few months she said that she was too exhausted to carry on with her job and wanted to be a stay at home Mum. I was shocked as that meant all the financial burden would fall on me, but the implication was that it would be good for our sex life. She gave up work 9 months after we got married and we had sex and she got pregnant first time! That was it for 9 months. She said she could not possibly risk sex whilst pregnant in case it hurt the baby.
I remember being very unhappy but I now had a pregnant wife and my faith meant I could not even consider letting her down by leaving her. After the first baby sex was rare in the extreme until she decided she wanted another one. Again she became pregnant immediately but lost the baby. A year or so later the same happened ending with another miscarriage and finally on the third try the baby was ok and so again 9 months without sex. I used to joke with close friends that we had sex four times and she got pregnant each time, but sadly that was pretty much the truth. She had an uncanny habit of immediate pregnancy.
So five years into the marriage I am the sole breadwinner with two children. I threw myself into work and told myself sex was not important. This went on for years and years. I am sure this part of the story is very familiar to many of you who have gone through similar experiences.
Move forward to 2011. My two girls had become independent adults and as far as I recall I had not had sex with the wife for around 5 years. Then one day we had an unrelated row and something snapped inside me and I decided enough was enough. I confronted my wife and said I have put up with the lack of sex for over 27 years and that things had to change. I won't bore you with the details but initially she was furious and did not speak to me for days. She accused me of being a pervert for wanting sex at my age (then 54). I was on the verge of leaving the marriage when in hindsight she must have panicked because one day she broke down and apologised and said that I was right. To my amazement she said she wanted sex and for the next 3 months we had the most and best sex of our marriage. I was so incredibly happy.
Then just as soon as it started it ended again. After a few dry months I confronted her again and she said "I just got bored with it". By this time she was waiting for a major operation and I just did not have the heart to end the marriage and so I decided to wait til she was back on her feet. We went away for the weekend just before the op and she was all over me that weekend. A few days after the op she was in the foulest of moods (she says she has no recollection of this now and it must have been due to the anaesthetic) and said "and I only had sex with you that weekend because I thought you would leave me otherwise". I was furious as it seemed to me the mask slipped. Sex had always been used as a sort of weapon against me. I snapped and said "I will never ask you for sex again" and I never have since that day at the end of 2012.
I would have left the marriage in 2013 but just as I was thinking the implications through, my elder daughter's marriage ended suddenly and she went off the rails and could not look after my two grandsons and so we had to take them in and this had to become a permanent arrangement. I was completely trapped by young children for the second time.
Since 2013 I again threw myself into work and childcare - boys football and so forth. I completely gave up on the idea of sex and decided that I should just make myself as happy as I could. All was well until late 2017 when my wife suddenly turned round and said out of the blue that she was fixed and wanted sex to be a regular part of the marriage. I tried to have sex with her after that but it just felt horrible. Something had clearly snapped inside me in 2012.
And so now I have become the refuser. I have zero desire for my wife. She is not unattractive but I feel a sort of repulsion and she constantly nags me for sex and intimacy - but I feel nothing. It is getting to the point where I doubt my sanity and I would desperately like to leave the marriage but the younger grandson is only aged 12 and so it will be 6 more years until he is an adult by which time I will be 69.
So the question is can anyone advise me. How can I "make myself" feel desire for this woman again when she has hurt me so deeply over so many years - especially when I don't really believe she has suddenly changed but that she feels she does not control me anymore and sex is that system of control and I fear going back to being controlled. I just feel something snapped within me at the end of 2012 and I just don't even want sex with her now - but then I feel I am as bad as she was all those years. I end up feeling guilty. I just don't know what to do.
Arghhhh.. any ideas?
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Post by h on Jan 13, 2021 12:29:55 GMT -5
You can't force yourself to feel something that's not there. You can't feel attracted to her because of the years of emotional abuse she put you through. I would be honest with her and tell her that. She had her chance and blew it. Now she gets to feel the rejection that you have felt for your entire marriage. I get that you can't leave, but you don't have to appease her either. She made her choices and now she has to live with them.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 13, 2021 12:45:54 GMT -5
How can you make yourself feel desire for someone who hurt you so deeply over three decades.
In short, you can't make yourself feel desire for a person. You now know how she felt about you for 27 years.
Here's what you can do to make yourself feel better though. You can recognize now that you have some things in common - you both married and felt trapped in a situation in which you felt unfulfilled, in a scenario that neither of you would likely describe or recognize as a marriage. Neither of you would agree to an oath of celibacy (as with a priest) in front of your family, friends, and God. But you both married a partner who was unsuited, and you both chose to stay involved regardless because the thought of losing the benefits associated with marriage were impractical and too costly.
What can you do with that? You can forgive her, and you can forgive yourself. She's not and never was the person you thought. You aren't and never were the person she thought, and marriage likely isn't what she thought it was. That's the same for all people in a marriage - btw - but in your case, she never "came to Jesus" or fully onboard in her heart with either you or the marriage to you. With the track record established - 3 decade of life - probably the bulk of your adult life - this is what it is.
Forgiveness isn't for her. And it isn't to be nice. It isn't even to regain your mojo. It's to free you from hate and baggage so you can make clear decisions about the kind of life you want to lead in your remaining years.
Do you want to experience love and intimacy? By "love" I don't mean familial love - but rather the kind of love that happens between a man and woman. If you want that in your life, I think 27 years of establishing that this person doesn't feel that way about you might be a strong enough sample base to conclude - she doesn't feel that way.
Best way forward is with forgiveness and a clear heart and mind. Stop pretending what you have is something other than what it is. If you want the whole package, you'll need to clear the chair - both of you - to make space to find yourselves and maybe someone else to sit there.
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Post by Handy on Jan 13, 2021 12:50:39 GMT -5
Andrew1957, first welcome to the forum. Your story length is perfect so no apologies required.
About you not feeling desire for your W and the reason why (control) is normal. It is called being the counter refuser and the reason for being the counter refuser is often based on not being controlled.
My W was into sex in the early part of out marriage but later said the same thing as your W and many other women and a few men, accusing you of being over sexed and having an abnormal sex drive. This shifting the blame from the abnormal person to the normal person is common.
Statistically, nothing gets better when _____________ (fill in the blank) the kids are independent and you can leave. You will just be (NN) years older.
The solutions are few and come down to: 1. Live with what is now. 2. Go to marriage and sex counseling with goals in mind and by when and have enforceable consequences by certain dates. This some times gets a person obligation sex. Since you are the refuser, you have to decide what you need in order to have sex with your W. Additionally you have to work out if she will go back to trying to control you. I am not a sex therapist so this is my only opinion. This part might take a while to figure out and to work out. 3. You could try a separation with a list of rules as to what is or is not allowed and see how it works. 4. You could file for divorce and have the grand kids go back to their mum. 5. Some might advise having a girlfriend.
The most important thing before doing anything is to get legal advice in your community because the laws and customs vary by location. What worked for a friend or relative might not apply to your situation.
My W acts controlling after having sex so I know a little bit how that feels. I also financially support my older daughter because of the grand children and the oldest one is 18.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 13, 2021 20:16:40 GMT -5
... my wife suddenly turned round and said out of the blue that she was fixed and wanted sex to be a regular part of the marriage. I tried to have sex with her after that but it just felt horrible. Something had clearly snapped inside me in 2012. And so now I have become the refuser. I have zero desire for my wife. She is not unattractive but I feel a sort of repulsion and she constantly nags me for sex and intimacy - but I feel nothing. It is getting to the point where I doubt my sanity and I would desperately like to leave the marriage but the younger grandson is only aged 12 and so it will be 6 more years until he is an adult by which time I will be 69. So the question is can anyone advise me. How can I "make myself" feel desire for this woman again when she has hurt me so deeply over so many years - especially when I don't really believe she has suddenly changed but that she feels she does not control me anymore and sex is that system of control and I fear going back to being controlled. I just feel something snapped within me at the end of 2012 and I just don't even want sex with her now - but then I feel I am as bad as she was all those years. I end up feeling guilty. I just don't know what to do. Arghhhh.. any ideas? Your story length was that of a string. As long as it needed to be and no longer. Just getting into it is how most folks start here. Ready to burst at the seems when they find this oasis of kindred spirits of rage, sorrow, dark humor, and joyous release. Clarification request:
1) What made sex feel horrible? 2) Which of these two would you prefer to be the outcome? "I would desperately like to leave the marriage" OR "How can I "make myself" feel desire for this woman again". There may be a way to thread that needle, but I'd think it more likely that one would win over the other.
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Post by baza on Jan 13, 2021 23:09:04 GMT -5
Well Brother andrew1957 , you route here has many common traits with other members who have found their way here. In any event, here you are. Just like everyone else. The issue now is not so much how you got here, but rather "now what ?" - and you have that problem, in common with most of the members here. Broadly, you've got 3 choices. 1 - you do nothing and stay 2 - you stay, but cheat 3 - you leave These are all perfectly valid choices. Within this group there are people who, like you, are pondering "now what ?" Others who are trialling option 2. Still others in the middle of option 3, and quite a few who have left their ILIASM situations. Possibly, reading voraciously in here might help you formulate your own answer to that "now what ?" question. I would just make this observation. The happiest people in here all seem to have a common trait - that being that they have taken ownership of their choice - whatever that choice might be. And by taking such a position they shed the "I'm a victim of circumstances" mindset. Me ? Well I got out of my ILIASM deal about 10 year ago, I've no regrets about that and am a pretty happy bloke these days. That is not to endorse option 3 as being the "right" answer for all. But it sure was the right choice for me.
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Post by jerri on Jan 14, 2021 2:29:52 GMT -5
4. Open the relationship? Can we get that added?
I will come back and address your question correctly. I can brain storm a few things that may help.
My personal feeling is, she noticed your lack of sexual attrACTION and it scared her sh!tless/woke her up again- For now.
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 14, 2021 2:36:47 GMT -5
andrew1957, I’ll try to be an optimist, despite a lot of collective experience here... your wife is seemingly interested in change, or at least going through motions that have potential. That is rarely the case here, and the reason that few cases improve. At question is whether her desire to change is sincere or just more manipulation as she seems to have a penchant for. This doubt is surely a factor in your disinterest toward her change of heart. Only time and experience will prove this out. I’ll suggest that a) she has thoroughly snuffed your sexual desire for her by constantly refusing you and/or making you out to be a pervert for wanting a physical relationship - this is intensely hard to recondition. But also, b) I’m of the opinion that desire can develop (rebuild?) over time with enough positive experiences. This is where her interest in trying is a critical element. Now, I’ll also offer a very cold and callous perspective... if you think your prospects of leaving are low, and you’re faced with staying regardless, you could take a very emotionally disconnected approach and view it as a transactional arrangement. Turn the tables on her controlling behavior; engage for the physical pleasure, and let her engage with a motivation to keep you from leaving; forego the expectation of an intimate / emotionally bonding experience. And yes, you might need ED pills to help you jump start things. Who knows... if you can manage to “fake it ‘till you make it”, maybe something better will develop; it’s kinda hard to improve when there’s no activity. Maybe a very selfish approach is what’s needed to a) keep her on her heels, and b) put in enough activity to see if there’s any sincerity here. Perhaps it’s also a got-nothing-to-lose opportunity to be very direct about the activities and frequency you expect, while you’re resetting her perspective. If you stay emotionally detached with a take-it-or-leave-it attitude toward sex, it robs her of control. Not normally a healthy dynamic, but maybe necessary to reset the playing field. Some people are satisfied with a physical-only arrangement and/or only their pleasure, and if you’re stuck in your situation maybe that’s the way to make the best of it, even long-term. Personally, I can’t do it and opt for no sex in lieu of duty sex with no emotional engagement - this makes no difference when someone really has no interest, but if she’s willing to try then ignoring her attempt closes the door to making improvements.
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Post by andrew1957 on Jan 14, 2021 6:19:00 GMT -5
Thank you for the replies. I do really appreciate you all taking the time to do so and I will read through your responses several times to see what I can take from them.
There is certainly a lot of food for thought there. It certainly backs up my thinking that you cannot force yourself to have feelings and desires. They are either there or not. I have tried being very honest with my wife on numerous occasions and tried to explain that it is the pain she put me through over so many years until the end of 2012 that has made me feel the way that I do. But she retorts that she thinks I am just trying to seek some sort of weird revenge on her. I assure he that this is not the case and that the way I feel is certainly out of pain rather than revenge, but she will simply not accept that.
I have also said that if she really wants sex why will she not dress up in sexy lingerie or the like to help me feel desire, but she will not and never has done this. During our marriage I tried buying her lingerie many times but it always ended up being taken back to the store or ended up in a draw never to be seen again. She thinks that I should just "feel desire because" she is my wife. She does not feel the need to do anything to help the situation.
I have come to believe that in some dark subconscious place (as I really don't believe she is a bad person) that she does not "need sex" but that she "needs me to pursue her" and so the fact that I stopped asking has just driven her crazy over the last few years. I have absolutely no doubt that if I was suddenly to "meet her needs" that as soon as she felt comfortable again, the sex would just peter out once more.
And to the poster that suggested it, unfortunately the boys cannot go back to their mother, for reasons I cannot go into here and so the choice is us or to go into state care - which is a very bad option where we live.
The problem I have is not really the sex issue but the passive aggressive and aggressive behaviour that she is exhibiting towards me on an almost daily basis. I learned to live without sex and our relationship settled into a sexless pattern between the end of 2012 and the end of 2017 but the last 3 years have been hell as she has badgered me, told me daily that I am not meeting her needs, that I am leaving her vulnerable to being attracted to someone else, that I am letting her down, that I am on some sick revenge trip, that she would leave the marriage if it were not for the boys and so forth. I came to a point that I could deal with the sexlessness but just over three years of anger being directed at you is debilitating. But I feel like a captive audience with no obvious options or way out. That is why the simplest thing would be to "make myself" feel something again and just give her what she wants to appease her, but it has come to the point where I see her as my abuser and I just cannot bring myself to just go through the motions.
I have to say that having thought these issues through over the last 10 years since I initially confronted her in 2011 my advice to anyone who does not have children to consider would be to leave such a marriage. I am not sure affairs are the answer and staying just saps your soul. But it does seem to me on my dark days that my situation is just particularly hard to exit.
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Post by andrew1957 on Jan 14, 2021 6:47:35 GMT -5
How can you make yourself feel desire for someone who hurt you so deeply over three decades. In short, you can't make yourself feel desire for a person. You now know how she felt about you for 27 years. Here's what you can do to make yourself feel better though. You can recognize now that you have some things in common - you both married and felt trapped in a situation in which you felt unfulfilled, in a scenario that neither of you would likely describe or recognize as a marriage. Neither of you would agree to an oath of celibacy (as with a priest) in front of your family, friends, and God. But you both married a partner who was unsuited, and you both chose to stay involved regardless because the thought of losing the benefits associated with marriage were impractical and too costly. What can you do with that? You can forgive her, and you can forgive yourself. She's not and never was the person you thought. You aren't and never were the person she thought, and marriage likely isn't what she thought it was. That's the same for all people in a marriage - btw - but in your case, she never "came to Jesus" or fully onboard in her heart with either you or the marriage to you. With the track record established - 3 decade of life - probably the bulk of your adult life - this is what it is. Forgiveness isn't for her. And it isn't to be nice. It isn't even to regain your mojo. It's to free you from hate and baggage so you can make clear decisions about the kind of life you want to lead in your remaining years. Do you want to experience love and intimacy? By "love" I don't mean familial love - but rather the kind of love that happens between a man and woman. If you want that in your life, I think 27 years of establishing that this person doesn't feel that way about you might be a strong enough sample base to conclude - she doesn't feel that way. Best way forward is with forgiveness and a clear heart and mind. Stop pretending what you have is something other than what it is. If you want the whole package, you'll need to clear the chair - both of you - to make space to find yourselves and maybe someone else to sit there. Just to say that I do honestly believe I have forgiven her. It is not a case of forgiveness as I do understand that she is a complex person who did not have the best start in life and so forth. I do still love her but I am struggling to be "in love with her". I think there is a big difference between the two.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 14, 2021 12:44:45 GMT -5
Just to say that I do honestly believe I have forgiven her. It is not a case of forgiveness as I do understand that she is a complex person who did not have the best start in life and so forth. I do still love her but I am struggling to be "in love with her". I think there is a big difference between the two. I get it - there are many kinds of love - different languages use different words to describe these almost as separate concepts. Eros - needs and desire based. Agape - Self-giving and sacrificial, for example. Consider the love that you have for your mother, or for a child - these are closer to the latter. The feeling you have lost for your wife, the Eros - and that your wife has basically said and demonstrated she never had for you - is a result of not seeing you as a viable partner for that kind of love. Note - it doesn't mean you aren't good enough - people can feel eros for a stranger on the subway. So much of it depends on either mystery or validation. The loss is the result of something happening somewhere that causes you to not see that person the same way. Suddenly she's gross instead of attractive, and you'll never get it back. Imagine the stranger on the subway picking her nose and eating it, or mistreating someone, or simply not behaving or moving in a manner that is consistent with the fantasy you imagine. You can't MAKE yourself feel eros - it's a result of whatever happened upstream. In your case, you have 27 years of someone telling and showing you that she doesn't feel eros for you - at all. There's your upstream. What result do you think a reasonable person might have, in manifesting eros for someone like that? To be clear, I've had relationships since I've been single where I've been ambivalent on my sexual attraction to some of them, where I've said "why not?" because it was easy and we were aligned on needs and the accompanying responsibilities. What you have now and what I had when married is different than indifference - it's aversion. It's not that sex isn't important to you, it's that it is important to you not to have sex with a person who you really don't want it with. Rather than framing this as a question between whether you are in love or not, it might help to switch the question to something more fundamental and non-specific to THIS relationship. You've likely had other relationships in your life, or crushes and loves, right? And you see those around you. So, what is a marriage? Not, what is YOUR marriage - but rather - what defines a living marriage as opposed to something like a really cooperative separated co-parenting relationship? What separates your lived reality (both of you) from two separated people living in the same house (maybe because one hasn't moved out yet, or you can't afford two houses)? It's not whether you love or are in love. We don't marry everyone we love. I love my kids, I'm not married to them. I love my mother. I might love some of my friends. I love my sister. I loved other women before and after I was married. I regard my ex-wife as a member of my family or extended family. But I don't love her in an invested, intentional, eros-laden way anymore. We don't have and have never had a mutual two-directional love that has existed on that level while married. She's strived to be a good family member and mother, but she's really never been a good at being a "wife" to me, because I don't think she understood or wanted that role. So to sum it up, I agree - there is a big difference in the kinds of love you can feel, and the kinds of relationships that support it. Does the way you each agree you feel about each other support the format of "marriage" - or does it support an "ex-spouse" Even if you magically override the emotional product of 27 years of "I don't feel that way about you", and you manage to restore your unrequited attraction, you are STILL left with the problem that led to its loss. SHE still doesn't feel that way about you - and a marriage, or any relationship beyond a crush - requires a mutual unique attraction. It took me a long time to arrive at what now seems a simple and obvious understanding of my problem with my ex wife. I imagine it being on par with a crazy fan's feeling of love for a celebrity who doesn't know them or a crush on a teacher or friend - the moment where it dawns on them. For me, it was the realization that I don't have a sexual relationship with that woman (my then wife), in the same way that I don't have a sexual relationship with a coworker or stranger. In fact, my prospects at having one with her were worse than a comparative stranger to her.
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Post by jerri on Jan 15, 2021 0:02:23 GMT -5
I liked this book for spice, he didn't, great assignments! Lost my post so maybe I will contribute more later.
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muzack
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by muzack on Jan 15, 2021 0:07:45 GMT -5
Andrew1957, welcome to the place of identifying a little with most everyone else's story. 47 year old me hasn't had sex in about a year and a half. Maybe 4 times in the last five years.
Wife still hints occasionally that something will happen in the future, but at this point such statements have almost no effect on me. To be truthful, when such promises are made, my internal dialogue is usually "I hope she doesn't try."
Mostly that is a recent realization that if I added up all the enjoyable sexual interactions we have had in 20 years and put them on a balance against all the pain of rejection, starfish sex, "why aren't you done yet" etc., then the scale is way unbalanced in a negative way. To cope, I have told myself not to desire sex; not to get myself worked up and open myself up for more pain of rejection. Unfortunately, repeating that process enough leads to the flip side of "Fake it until you make it." I am unsure how I would react if my wife suddenly did a 180 and wanted sex.
Part of me knows that my defense mechanisms lowers the chances for intimacy to improve, but the more calculating side has to admit the scales analogy shows my sum total of happiness would have been greater if I had been monk celibate for the last decade.
I can't tell you how to make yourself feel desire, since I may be in the same boat. I would advise you focus on making yourself happy about you. Be civil and kind to your wife. I am a big believer that prayer is mainly about bringing oneself to be the person God wants them to be. I'm making some assumptions since you mentioned a Christian faith when you married, so pray that you are able to interact honestly with her without guilt, vengeance, etc. God calls us to forgive, but also expects us to use our wisdom. If 36 years of history makes you certain you're only going to get hurt more, don't feel guilty about refusing to get hurt.
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Post by lwoetin on Jan 15, 2021 3:10:44 GMT -5
I still have desire but we all have different situations. And I am still waiting for my wife to be fixed. My suggestion would be to focus on her good traits. I'm sure she has good traits too. Also you don't have to have sex to satisfy her sexual needs. Besides, even if you have sex, if you can't get it up because of having no desire for sex, then the sex will not satisfy her. Just spending time doing things together will make her feel better. Also, feel no guilt for not having desire. My wife has none and she feels pretty good about that. You should try to enjoy your time with your grandkids and just be pleasant to the poor wife who has (unreciprocated) desire for you and give her love (Christian).
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 15, 2021 7:38:21 GMT -5
andrew1957 , I’ll try to be an optimist, despite a lot of collective experience here... your wife is seemingly interested in change, or at least going through motions that have potential. That is rarely the case here, and the reason that few cases improve. ...you could take a very emotionally disconnected approach and view it as a transactional arrangement. Turn the tables on her controlling behavior; engage for the physical pleasure, and let her engage with a motivation to keep you from leaving; forego the expectation of an intimate / emotionally bonding experience. ... if you can manage to “fake it ‘till you make it”, maybe something better will develop; ... keep her on her heels, Ramble alert. When I first read your letter, I had an opposite dynamic in mind as an option. Not physical-only and acknowledge it, but full bore romantic with a layer of abstraction to protect yourself while you find the truth. It may be impossible, depending on how disinterested you truly are. Some of the fellas around here get requests form their wives for the intimate hard work a husband can provide. Back rubs, foot rubs, massages. Like sex from less responsive women, this may be seen as a gesture of profound affection. Extensive foreplay and skin to skin contact can be highly pleasant and arousing and non-PIV sexual contact can be better for women than actual intercourse. These guys' wives seem to be pleased to accept this service and get huffy when the guys would like to engage in their favorite bodily stimulation. You'd go in with the expectation she'll do exactly this. Take take take and the light bulb never going off in her head as to how one-sided your relationship is. You would. But not with anger, but curiosity. Just how blind is she? Act as though you love her as a wife. Command your brain to understand that feelings will not follow your action until you get a better grasp of whether she, too, is only acting or has miraculously transformed into a sensual lover. Platonic intimate gestures of holding hands and stolen kisses can be the most satisfying parts of coupling for women. (some men, but the one leading to the other can be a huge part of the appeal, whereas these less sexual folk are good stopping at the non-erogenous zones.) Providing all the romantic overtures of a 12 year old boy to his first girlfriend may be all she's looking for and all she wants. Does she want sex? Does she want to make you equally happy? Perhaps these marital interactions that stop at third base will produce appropriate cravings for more. Relent and allow her to please you sexually rarely and with the same detachment. Appreciate it, but keep your heart in check. Not all is well if she demonstrates marital affection. She's merely fulfilling the minimum of an ordinary marriage. She gets a cookie, but not your full devotion once again. Or she may not notice and think you are just as happy living like you did when you had braces and had a fake ID. This investigative approach may yield data whether she actually has sexual needs and it may well smooth the six year journey to departure if she flunks this opportunity to be your wife, not a roommate. If you find a satisfactory dynamic emerges where your spoiling her rotten produces urges to please you in ways that aren't necessarily her first choice, super. Death is your eventual, preferred exit and you're all the happier. Maybe by 69, platonic love with monthly sex will be suitable to a 69 year old. The drawback I've undersold here is your own urges will make this slow torture. Cerebral disconnection may be required and iron discipline that topless back rubs do not produce any more desire than if you were scratching the dog's ears. Will you break under the desire that returns with a vengeance? Will fighting off the desire you think you need to try hard to get be the problem? Can you make yourself assume the incorrect rhythm and fake orgasm if that helps your self-control? This may be rising to the level of manipulation, but if your orgasm is the only thing she wants because she thinks it's a choke collar, it may be necessary for your mental and emotional safety not to get viscerally connected. Her loud, hurtful complaints about fulfilling the needs she didn't have for five years make me paranoid. You have every right not to take her shameful attempts at shaming you seriously. This approach could help with the possibly manipulative, possibly sincere accusation that your counter-refusing is punishment. Will she recognize you're still maintaining distance even as you grow physically closer. The threat for her to leave you is a gobsmacker. Maybe suggest a divorce where you stay living together for the grandkids but she can get a man to satisfy those needs she claims to have. Have a video camera on, if possible. Odd she thinks bullying you is a good method of getting you hot for her. Would demanding sex and shaming her have worked for you? That's what she seems to say with her role modeling. Ramble over, stand down.
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