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Post by saarinista on Feb 15, 2021 2:47:10 GMT -5
I'm sure flying solo will figure it out, Apocrypha. My main point is that there's no such thing as a perfect partner. Especially when we are older, most everyone available has issues that might present as signs of unwillingness to be sexually available or commit but in reality are just tied to how complicated life is when we get older. That's my take.
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 15, 2021 3:02:44 GMT -5
I'm sure flying solo will figure it out, Apocrypha . My main point is that there's no such thing as a perfect partner. Especially when we are older, most everyone available has issues that might present as signs of unwillingness to be sexually available or commit but in reality are just tied to how complicated life is when we get older. That's my take. That's a generous and accommodating view. Did you stay in your sexless relationship?
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 15, 2021 7:00:55 GMT -5
One of my friends started corresponding on E Harmony with a man who lived a 5 hour drive away. Within a year, they had married, and he'd moved to her city. It has been about 10 years and they are still married. Incidentally, both were in their mid 60s. "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.” ― Theodore Roosevelt If Alice was a refuser, Teddy was a why-chasing "stayer". Curious whether the distance can make LDRs more enticing. It adds an element of "written in the stars" Who can deny the romanticism of a marriage that began as an LDR? But what a PITA. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleepless_in_Seattle#PlotI remember liking this movie. "After watching the film An Affair to Remember, Annie writes a letter suggesting that Sam meet her on top of the Empire State Building on Valentine's Day."
Oh, brilliant. So both of them have to travel. Wait....WHAT happened in Meg Ryan's favorite movie? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Affair_to_Remember#Plot
And she wants to reenact that movie with Tom Hanks?
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Post by saarinista on Feb 15, 2021 12:11:36 GMT -5
I'm sure flying solo will figure it out, Apocrypha . My main point is that there's no such thing as a perfect partner. Especially when we are older, most everyone available has issues that might present as signs of unwillingness to be sexually available or commit but in reality are just tied to how complicated life is when we get older. That's my take. That's a generous and accommodating view. Did you stay in your sexless relationship? This is not about me or my relationships. This thread is about flyingsolo. My opinion is: a LDR is not optimal but what is? That's my opinion. If you disagree totally, fair enough, my friend. There's no reason for us to hijack this thread. I have nothing else to add to the discussion.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 16, 2021 12:02:00 GMT -5
Apocrypha , you bring up some good points. And it is great that everyone shared their experience and it is good that this is not an echo chamber. He has many POVs I didn't think it was a good idea because he was attracted to her when he was young. We tend to attract people that which we had challenges within our same families. They usually mirror the parent we were having challenges with, usually unresolved and we take on our same family role. If it applies. I attracted a mate that says no rather easily as my mom did or lacking compromise. I am sure a lot of you can relate. What bothered me was they were friends socially on the internet for several years, friends not really communicating too often until...I wondered why they didn't hit it off again and become besties right away? That seemed odd to me that she waited to pick up the friendship, or maybe not odd at all. Maybe she just realized what a match they are. Surely she knows she is interrupting a marriage bad or not. She asked him for sexual advice then later a Zoom call. His W says he is emotionally unavailable, but then won't agree to talk. WOW Doesn't really matter they are spending 3-5 hrs Face Timing not likely to stop for now. Wonder what the therapist thinks? I think it is very respectful that FS is considering his W and wants to talk to her. To clarify, we weren't "friends on the internet". We didn't talk, at all, for 25 years, no Facebook, no phone calls, no nothing. Literally, zero contact while we lived our own lives. I would not have felt right continuing to carry on a correspondence relationship with an ex-partner while married to my wife. I've been in the sexless part of my marriage for about ten years. It's been absolutely sexless for over six years. I've been in marital counseling for the past four trying to save it. Over the last three years, until about two months ago, my friend and I talked maybe five or six times on the phone. The interval started out as one call about every six months and the first call started after I lost my dad in order to encourage her to try to rebuild her relationship with her dad, which I knew was strained. That's pretty much all we talked about. The next few calls were every three months or so just to check in. At the time I still thought she was married, but she revealed on our second or third call that she had been divorced for several years. It led me to ask a bunch of questions about the demise of her marriage and we connected on many similar things that happened in both our marriages. From there, the calls became more frequent just to check in on each other and were not of a real intimate nature other than checking in on each other to make sure we were doing OK. This wasn't because we weren't connecting and I wasn't interested in her, but rather I was still keeping her at arm's length as I was still uncertain about my marriage. It's only when we started to have a Zoom call about once a week a month or so ago that a spark happened and we both realized that we are very attracted to each other and wanted to see where this all went. She still looks great 25 years later and she feels the same about me. We didn't "hit it off" because I was married and trying to save my marriage and knew I couldn't "go there" or risk an emotional affair so I really avoided disclosing anything too personal or talking to her too frequently. However, over the last three months, I've realized I won't save my marriage. My wife point blank refuses to go see my new counselor. I've gone anyway. My wife has succinctly stated "we are not lovers". We've both agreed we "can't keep doing this for another year". My wife and I are squarely in the friend zone and I hope we can stay there because I do love my wife as the mother of my children however I am no longer "in love" with my wife and I have no desire for physical intimacy with her anymore. We sleep in separate beds and separate rooms and have for more than two years. All this turmoil in my marriage has caused me to decide that I won't save it. I've seen an attorney three times over the past two and a half years to weigh my options. That third time was yesterday. When I told her I had met someone she was ecstatic for me. She literally said "Good for you! I was worried about you!". She knows my sexless marriage situation and how long it has gone on. She pushed me to file for divorce two and a half years ago. I waited, still thinking we could do the work to save it. That won't happen. I see my attorney on Thursday to put a retainer down and review my divorce filing. My wife has a family trip planned for next week and I am going to go on the trip and enjoy the last potential "family vacation" with my kids. I know my wife and I will be sleeping in separate rooms. I know there will be no intimacy between us, but I'll go anyway to spend time with my kids and enjoy one last somewhat normal vacation with all of us there. When I return home, I'll file for divorce and let my wife know I've filed and we'll see where that path leads with her. Again, I am really hoping it is a relief for her as well and that we can talk about how we move forward to take care of our kids and co-parent as rational adults. She deserves to be with someone that makes her happy and that she connects with on a intimacy level just as much as I do. However, I also have to be prepared for the other option where she becomes angry and vindictive. I may end up staying in the house several more months. I may end up moving out in a month. I don't know where my path leads yet, but time will tell and I can't worry about what I can't control. My friend will remain on the sidelines while I grieve for my marriage and get to a place where I can be 100% available for her. Once I have my feet back under me and my own place, we'll see where it goes from there. We've both said we are willing to wait to get that figured out, so there's no rush, but there is potentially a very bright light for me at the end of this dark tunnel I've been in for so long.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 16, 2021 18:22:23 GMT -5
flyingsolo your thinking sounds very prudent and more than honorable. You'll always be the father of your children, but your marriage is dead. I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that legally.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 20, 2021 4:24:40 GMT -5
Apocrypha , you bring up some good points. And it is great that everyone shared their experience and it is good that this is not an echo chamber. He has many POVs I didn't think it was a good idea because he was attracted to her when he was young. We tend to attract people that which we had challenges within our same families. They usually mirror the parent we were having challenges with, usually unresolved and we take on our same family role. If it applies. I attracted a mate that says no rather easily as my mom did or lacking compromise. I am sure a lot of you can relate. What bothered me was they were friends socially on the internet for several years, friends not really communicating too often until...I wondered why they didn't hit it off again and become besties right away? That seemed odd to me that she waited to pick up the friendship, or maybe not odd at all. Maybe she just realized what a match they are. Surely she knows she is interrupting a marriage bad or not. She asked him for sexual advice then later a Zoom call. His W says he is emotionally unavailable, but then won't agree to talk. WOW Doesn't really matter they are spending 3-5 hrs Face Timing not likely to stop for now. Wonder what the therapist thinks? I think it is very respectful that FS is considering his W and wants to talk to her. To clarify, we weren't "friends on the internet". We didn't talk, at all, for 25 years, no Facebook, no phone calls, no nothing. Literally, zero contact while we lived our own lives. I would not have felt right continuing to carry on a correspondence relationship with an ex-partner while married to my wife. I've been in the sexless part of my marriage for about ten years. It's been absolutely sexless for over six years. I've been in marital counseling for the past four trying to save it. Over the last three years, until about two months ago, my friend and I talked maybe five or six times on the phone. The interval started out as one call about every six months and the first call started after I lost my dad in order to encourage her to try to rebuild her relationship with her dad, which I knew was strained. That's pretty much all we talked about. The next few calls were every three months or so just to check in. At the time I still thought she was married, but she revealed on our second or third call that she had been divorced for several years. It led me to ask a bunch of questions about the demise of her marriage and we connected on many similar things that happened in both our marriages. From there, the calls became more frequent just to check in on each other and were not of a real intimate nature other than checking in on each other to make sure we were doing OK. This wasn't because we weren't connecting and I wasn't interested in her, but rather I was still keeping her at arm's length as I was still uncertain about my marriage. It's only when we started to have a Zoom call about once a week a month or so ago that a spark happened and we both realized that we are very attracted to each other and wanted to see where this all went. She still looks great 25 years later and she feels the same about me. We didn't "hit it off" because I was married and trying to save my marriage and knew I couldn't "go there" or risk an emotional affair so I really avoided disclosing anything too personal or talking to her too frequently. However, over the last three months, I've realized I won't save my marriage. My wife point blank refuses to go see my new counselor. I've gone anyway. My wife has succinctly stated "we are not lovers". We've both agreed we "can't keep doing this for another year". My wife and I are squarely in the friend zone and I hope we can stay there because I do love my wife as the mother of my children however I am no longer "in love" with my wife and I have no desire for physical intimacy with her anymore. We sleep in separate beds and separate rooms and have for more than two years. All this turmoil in my marriage has caused me to decide that I won't save it. I've seen an attorney three times over the past two and a half years to weigh my options. That third time was yesterday. When I told her I had met someone she was ecstatic for me. She literally said "Good for you! I was worried about you!". She knows my sexless marriage situation and how long it has gone on. She pushed me to file for divorce two and a half years ago. I waited, still thinking we could do the work to save it. That won't happen. I see my attorney on Thursday to put a retainer down and review my divorce filing. My wife has a family trip planned for next week and I am going to go on the trip and enjoy the last potential "family vacation" with my kids. I know my wife and I will be sleeping in separate rooms. I know there will be no intimacy between us, but I'll go anyway to spend time with my kids and enjoy one last somewhat normal vacation with all of us there. When I return home, I'll file for divorce and let my wife know I've filed and we'll see where that path leads with her. Again, I am really hoping it is a relief for her as well and that we can talk about how we move forward to take care of our kids and co-parent as rational adults. She deserves to be with someone that makes her happy and that she connects with on a intimacy level just as much as I do. However, I also have to be prepared for the other option where she becomes angry and vindictive. I may end up staying in the house several more months. I may end up moving out in a month. I don't know where my path leads yet, but time will tell and I can't worry about what I can't control. My friend will remain on the sidelines while I grieve for my marriage and get to a place where I can be 100% available for her. Once I have my feet back under me and my own place, we'll see where it goes from there. We've both said we are willing to wait to get that figured out, so there's no rush, but there is potentially a very bright light for me at the end of this dark tunnel I've been in for so long. This sounds like a man who has been getting his shit together at a pace of his own choosing. Despite the fact it may be an emotional roller coaster now, know that you are doing well. For what it's worth, I think that the way you are handling things with your friend is spot on. She has been divorced for several years so there is no rush. You will be well served by letting things proceed apace as you become "available" (and I'm not referring to that in the legal sense). You've got this...
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 21, 2021 15:53:37 GMT -5
Thanks shamwow. I know it will be a roller coaster, especially for my kids, but I am at peace with my decision and do feel like I have my shit together as well as I can at this point. I found an apartment/condo complex I really like 30 seconds from my office (literally, I timed it driveway to driveway last week). I can see myself living there for awhile and it's big enough for my kids to be comfortable there to. I put a deposit down last week.
I've signed the divorce filing paperwork and my attorney is just waiting on my go-ahead to file it on Friday. I will have to tell my wife next Monday that I've filed. I think she will be surprised, but this can't be completely unexpected for her. We've been limping along for a decade in a marriage that has no intimacy. She's the one that wanted counseling and the counseling has failed to save the marriage, but it woke me up to what I am really missing in my life - intimacy, happiness, companionship, adventure, passion, a future together and last but not least, GREAT SEX! I will have none of that if I stay in my marriage and I want ALL of it. My friend, once I am ready, looks very promising in terms of providing all of these missing pieces for me and with me. We both agree that we can see a bright future and are willing to be 100% open and honest if we move forward together.
I am about to leave for the family trip (my kids and wife have already left but I had to work today so I am driving up separately). I'll spend the three hours talking to my friend. We have great conversations and the drive will go by in no-time. Then, I'll enjoy my last "family vacation" for awhile and wade into the shit storm of divorce next week. Wish me luck.
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Post by flyingsolo on Mar 2, 2021 12:30:45 GMT -5
Hi Gang. Just a quick update. I filed for divorce and it was accepted by the court on Monday after we got back from our family vacation last week. I was originally going to tell my wife this Wednesday, but the stress was really weighing me so I ended up catching her during a window last night while she was alone without the kids and told her that I had filed for divorce. She was shocked/stunned at first and a bit angry but ultimately admitted she wasn't surprised (and I'm not really sure how she could be given the sexual desert we've been in). After a frank but civil discussion about how disconnected we are and have been for the past decade and that we are actually further apart now than we were when we started marital counseling 4 1/2 years ago, she asked me if I was moving out and I told her "at some point yes". She asked if I would move out sooner rather than later to give our oldest child time to adjust to new living arrangements before he goes off to college in the fall. I am OK moving out sooner rather than later as it allows me to get adjusted to living alone for half the week and allows me to start my new life and adjust to my new normal.
I've already found a brand new luxury three bedroom apartment with a two car garage literally 30 seconds from my office (yes I timed it driveway to driveway). I put a security deposit down on it last week and I am looking at it again tomorrow to get some dimensions to start getting furniture, etc. so I can sign my lease which begins in early April. I may not move out by then, but at least I will have a place to go that I can start getting ready to be my new home. I don't plan on taking much from my marital home in the way of furniture as I really want a fresh start and to be able to make my new "home" what I want it to be for me and my kids.
Although these two hurdles (filing for divorce and then telling my wife I filed) were tough, I feel way better about my future now. I still have three big hurdles left (telling my kids, moving out, and finalizing said divorce), but I am hoping that my wife is willing to be civil about the process. I've reassured her that I have no desire for it to become adversarial and that if ends up that way, it won't be because of me.
I am on the way to ending my sexless marriage, though honestly it wasn't the outcome I was originally hoping for. Along the way, I've learned a lot more about who I am and what I need to be happy. I ultimately realized during that process that as a physical touch and words of affirmation person, I wasn't getting either from my wife and probably never would. Faced with living in that environment forever or being willing to sacrifice some of the "comforts" I was used to (living in a big house, seeing my kids every day, etc.), I decided I was willing to sacrifice some things to find the loving relationship with someone that I need that is both emotionally and sexually rewarding. I believe I have found that person as detailed in some of my earlier posts, but I will not act on that until the divorce process is in full swing and the majority of the big items are settled. Then I will allow myself to enjoy the company of another woman and make up for lost time.
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Post by saarinista on Mar 2, 2021 12:37:01 GMT -5
I'm glad you did this. You've checked the boxes and you are doing this correctly. It may well proceed civilly because she can't argue you haven't tried.
There is such a thing as a good divorce. Keep us posted and start packing for your new adventure, I say!
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Mar 2, 2021 16:24:34 GMT -5
Hello Solo, ((hug)) Well done for doing something that takes a lot of bravery. Here's to your new life xx
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Post by sadkat on Mar 2, 2021 23:27:12 GMT -5
flyingsolo- The first step is always the hardest. You did it. The rest will be difficult but manageable. Your W will likely go through a lot of different emotions. Be prepared for that. I’m sure you’ve talked to your lawyer about your plans to move to an apartment? It’ll be important not to move out of the house until you’ve made sure your W cannot make an issue over abandonment. There’s really no telling how she will respond in the days and months to come. You’ll need to look out for yourself while at the same time being fair to her. Good Luck!
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Post by flyingsolo on Mar 3, 2021 12:25:22 GMT -5
flyingsolo - The first step is always the hardest. You did it. The rest will be difficult but manageable. Your W will likely go through a lot of different emotions. Be prepared for that. I’m sure you’ve talked to your lawyer about your plans to move to an apartment? It’ll be important not to move out of the house until you’ve made sure your W cannot make an issue over abandonment. There’s really no telling how she will respond in the days and months to come. You’ll need to look out for yourself while at the same time being fair to her. Good Luck! Yes, the one thing we have to do before I can move out is agree on a parenting arrangement in writing to avoid any abandonment claim. The interesting thing is on Monday night when I told her I had filed for divorce, she asked me to move out "sooner rather than later". So, already having an apartment in mind, I had a refundable security deposit down on one a few weeks ago as I knew this was coming. I told her I had a place in mind and moving out when we were ready wasn't an issue. On Tuesday I sent her my attorney's contact info and also let her know I had an apartment lined up and was prepared to sign a lease by the end of the month to start leasing in early April. I need to do so to avoid losing the three bedroom apartment, which is the only one open in this complex at the moment. I love it because it also comes with a two car garage and is big enough to feel like home for my kids when they are with me also. At the bottom of that email I also gave her my proposal for a parenting time agreement, which was very lenient and flexible in her favor and I told her I'd work with her to make sure the kids could come and go as they felt they needed to and within her schedule. My attorney blessed the verbiage before I emailed it to my wife. On Tuesday after I sent it, my wife called me all pissed off about "Why the rush to move out??? We didn't discuss this. What all this stuff on the bottom about parenting rights? Did you mean to send that?" I literally rehashed our conversation from Monday night with her word for word and told her that she was the one that asked me to move out "sooner rather than later so our son could get used to the new living arrangements before he went off to college". Her words exactly. She claims she has no recollection at all of that conversation and thinks I am making it up. Point of note - this is one of the biggest issues I have with her - she doesn't hear me or only hears what she wants to hear. Bottom line, whether I move in to my apartment sometime in April or not, I am signing the lease so I don't lose it. It would be a perfect place to live as I transition away from married life.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 3, 2021 13:58:19 GMT -5
On Tuesday after I sent it, my wife called me all pissed off about "Why the rush to move out??? We didn't discuss this. What all this stuff on the bottom about parenting rights? Did you mean to send that?" I literally rehashed our conversation from Monday night with her word for word and told her that she was the one that asked me to move out "sooner rather than later so our son could get used to the new living arrangements before he went off to college". Her words exactly. She claims she has no recollection at all of that conversation and thinks I am making it up. Point of note - this is one of the biggest issues I have with her - she doesn't hear me or only hears what she wants to hear. Bottom line, whether I move in to my apartment sometime in April or not, I am signing the lease so I don't lose it. It would be a perfect place to live as I transition away from married life. Sometimes when a conversation goes sideways, it's good to step back and see what it's really about. It sounds like your temperment is well suited for that. Early on in my separation, I was surprised at a torrent of anger from my ex-wife rooted in her fear of losing "her children". I corrected her - "OUR children" - and took a step back as I considered the flash to anger. I pointed out that the decisions and logistics we would need to make would be difficult and that was hard - for both of us. But I assured her that I felt they needed their mother as much as their father, and that my intention was always going to be to make room for success and participation in that role, and that I'd hope for the same in return. Things smoothed out considerably after that agreement in principle. It wasn't apparent to her intuitively that I would think that.
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Post by saarinista on Mar 3, 2021 16:36:30 GMT -5
flyingsolo let me be blunt. Your wife has it made. You have money and you sound honorable and super responsible. She will not want for a thing. All you are doing is getting out of her hair. Do you know how many women would give their eye teeth for those circumstances? I guess I am just tired of seeing spiteful women trashing decent men just to get their own way and poison the well. It ruins things for the rest of the world and it's pointless and makes everybody look bad. Please know that your wife is privileged. Don't let her whine.
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