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Post by dallasgia on Oct 20, 2021 16:48:34 GMT -5
I have decided that I do not. So, am I now a co-refuser? Not that I have had to refuse in years, but at this point I would.
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 88 
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Oct 20, 2021 18:12:31 GMT -5
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
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Post by frustratedcam on Oct 21, 2021 14:34:22 GMT -5
New to this forum, but emphatically yes! Maybe it's delusional(who am I kidding it is delusional), but thoughts of her still fuel the fire of my soul. Being refused for over 11 months now has not quelled my desire for her. It's not a new thing either, as in 2019 it was four times, 2020 3 times, 2021 0 for the year so far. But still, I hold out hope, practice my gratitude lists and journaling, but even so, lately the resentment has been building. I know it's detrimental to my son to see the toxicity but financially I am unable to leave and emotionally I still pine for her. Call me a hopeless romantic, or crazy, my brain knows the facts that she will not change, but my misplaced sense of duty will not allow me to act on the course that I know I ought to take. I'm sorry for rambling, and also sorry for the incoherent thought process, she always says don't bring that up let me come to you, so I don't bring it up and she doesn't come to me and with each passing day it is gnawing at my brain, and affecting every other relationship I have (including the one with myself). Having read a bunch of posts today, I must admit that I would be willing for even starfish, reset at this point.
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Post by Handy on Oct 21, 2021 15:05:54 GMT -5
frustratedcam, welcome to the forum. Your introductory story is common. We understand where you are coming from. BTW your post is not rambling. Start your own thread when you like, probably under the sexless marriage issues. On the upper right you will see a box labeled "create thread." That way you can keep keep most of your story in one area.
One bit of advice is a spouse wanting you to wait until they are ready, I don't know of one instance where the reluctant spouse was ever ready. A couple of reluctant spouses did have what we call reset sex after they were given the option of divorce or an open marriage,
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 22, 2021 11:20:17 GMT -5
New to this forum, but emphatically yes! Maybe it's delusional(who am I kidding it is delusional), but thoughts of her still fuel the fire of my soul. Being refused for over 11 months now has not quelled my desire for her. It's not a new thing either, as in 2019 it was four times, 2020 3 times, 2021 0 for the year so far. But still, I hold out hope, practice my gratitude lists and journaling, but even so, lately the resentment has been building. I know it's detrimental to my son to see the toxicity but financially I am unable to leave and emotionally I still pine for her. Call me a hopeless romantic, or crazy, my brain knows the facts that she will not change, but my misplaced sense of duty will not allow me to act on the course that I know I ought to take. I'm sorry for rambling, and also sorry for the incoherent thought process, she always says don't bring that up let me come to you, so I don't bring it up and she doesn't come to me and with each passing day it is gnawing at my brain, and affecting every other relationship I have (including the one with myself). Having read a bunch of posts today, I must admit that I would be willing for even starfish, reset at this point. It's a difficult but significant stage in acceptance to look upstream from the sexual act and instead look to why it isn't present, or to why it is reluctant. It's because your spouse doesn't WANT to have sex with you - doesn't see you as a viable sexual partner anymore. Her thinking has changed about you or about the marriage to you. Once you understand that, you can reframe this conflict about what amount of sex you'll accept from her, or the characteristics of that sex. Instead, of framing on sex, you'll frame it around desire and aversion. Whether she has sex or not - she doesn't want to with you. Most people likely wouldn't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want them. It's totally normal in single life (and perhaps more intuitively understood), to feel sexual, horny, desirous - but to not have any viable prospects and to not wish to lower standards to find a willing partner, so you sit out. That doesn't magically go away because you are married and you happen to change the way you view your partner or your marriage. It just means that the available pool is one person unless you cheat, open, or leave - and each of those has their own issues. Where the rubber hit the road for me in terms of progress in my own life was when I accepted what I had evidence for: my wife did not want to have sex with me. It was evident in her not having sex with me, and it was evident when she did. I gave up on trying, and it helped me disengage my sense of desire for her. I never thought I'd say this - but after a year or two sitting with that, I see her now as a normal person and not in any way the object of my desire. |
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Post by isthisit on Oct 22, 2021 14:29:41 GMT -5
Absolutely not.
Unbelievably, coming up to three years out, H made a suggestive comment to me recently. I … just… managed not to visibly recoil.
It’s a bit unbelievable now that I allowed 15 years of my life slide by longing for the touch of this man. Amazing how emotionally distancing from him and our hollow marriage has allowed me to focus differently. Like emotional zip code therapy.
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Post by carl on Oct 22, 2021 21:31:16 GMT -5
New to this forum, but emphatically yes! Maybe it's delusional(who am I kidding it is delusional), but thoughts of her still fuel the fire of my soul. Being refused for over 11 months now has not quelled my desire for her. It's not a new thing either, as in 2019 it was four times, 2020 3 times, 2021 0 for the year so far. But still, I hold out hope, practice my gratitude lists and journaling, but even so, lately the resentment has been building. I know it's detrimental to my son to see the toxicity but financially I am unable to leave and emotionally I still pine for her. Call me a hopeless romantic, or crazy, my brain knows the facts that she will not change, but my misplaced sense of duty will not allow me to act on the course that I know I ought to take. I'm sorry for rambling, and also sorry for the incoherent thought process, she always says don't bring that up let me come to you, so I don't bring it up and she doesn't come to me and with each passing day it is gnawing at my brain, and affecting every other relationship I have (including the one with myself). Having read a bunch of posts today, I must admit that I would be willing for even starfish, reset at this point. The refuser is only one person. Its possible that its not just you she isn’t good with. Its my opinion that for example my wife won’t make anybody happy. And in a way that makes me sad for her. I guess there are those refusers who are just with the wrong person. But thats not really refusing as such but just marrying the wrong person.,But then if a person can at one time want to marry somebody and susequently want no physical relationship with them, tearing apart a family, then I wouldn’t want to be their next mistake …. Would you..? |
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Post by carl on Oct 22, 2021 22:05:35 GMT -5
I wanted to have sex with my wife because she is my wife and we live in the same house, have three children together and it made more sense than shagging the bosses wife or swapping with my mate’s women. Life would be a merry dance if we all decided that we couldn’t cope with sex in marriage. The world would be full of random orgies. But its not because most of us are capable of loving our spouses. Yeah sure they might tick you off a bit or get under your skin every now and then but I am very sure everybody does. The difference is that some people are mature enough to just get on with marriage and stop whinging like the intraspective naive wallies who spend years rufusing to. I could have been happy with many different women and probably many different women could have been happy with me. But its being able to be happy with what you’ve got that makes you valuable and special as apposed to being some kind of an emotional riddle with a driving liscence.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 25, 2021 9:27:31 GMT -5
I wanted to have sex with my wife because she is my wife and we live in the same house, have three children together and it made more sense than shagging the bosses wife or swapping with my mate’s women. Life would be a merry dance if we all decided that we couldn’t cope with sex in marriage. The world would be full of random orgies. But its not because most of us are capable of loving our spouses. Yeah sure they might tick you off a bit or get under your skin every now and then but I am very sure everybody does. The difference is that some people are mature enough to just get on with marriage and stop whinging like the intraspective naive wallies who spend years rufusing to. I could have been happy with many different women and probably many different women could have been happy with me. But its being able to be happy with what you’ve got that makes you valuable and special as apposed to being some kind of an emotional riddle with a driving liscence. I'm not clear on what you are saying. Are you saying that you are happy, and feel valuable and special? |
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Post by carl on Oct 25, 2021 23:04:08 GMT -5
Yes, even despite being married to a miserable woman and having no sex at all, I find enough things to keep me happy. I do feel valued by myself and other people, again despite not being valued at home by my wife. A woman can try to control a man but she’d be better off using her energy for getting on with some work instead.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 26, 2021 10:03:17 GMT -5
Yes, even despite being married to a miserable woman and having no sex at all, I find enough things to keep me happy. I do feel valued by myself and other people, again despite not being valued at home by my wife. A woman can try to control a man but she’d be better off using her energy for getting on with some work instead. If you are feeling really good about your life - which I think would likely include your home and marriage - I'm curious why you googled up this forum? Not disputing your claim, per se - but I'm curious about your perspective. |
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Post by h on Oct 26, 2021 11:55:49 GMT -5
I don't seek her out or initiate, but I haven't turned her down yet unless I was physically unable to (which coincidentally seems to be the times when she's most likely to initiate). I can take it or leave it at this point. It's honestly more work and less pleasure than doing it solo with only my hand. I may become a counter-refuser someday, but I'm not quite there yet.
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Post by carl on Oct 27, 2021 0:23:01 GMT -5
Yes, even despite being married to a miserable woman and having no sex at all, I find enough things to keep me happy. I do feel valued by myself and other people, again despite not being valued at home by my wife. A woman can try to control a man but she’d be better off using her energy for getting on with some work instead. If you are feeling really good about your life - which I think would likely include your home and marriage - I'm curious why you googled up this forum? Not disputing your claim, per se - but I'm curious about your perspective. A lot of people - myself included - tend to compartmentalize elements of their life as a way of containing the cancer. "We have a great marriage except for one thing..." Do people do that with their sense of "home" and valued relationships? I think it depends a little on what I ever expected. I had always seen sex as the icing on the cake, ie something fantastic, but not a necessity. Its some womens twist on it that no man could be content without it but the truth is you can be. Content that is. It seems to be in some womens interests to exaggerate whats required and on offer beyond any drive they possess. I still love sex as much as ever and if circumstances allowed I’d be grateful. But until then I’ll survive and the W will have to pull her weight for a change. |
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 192
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Post by catsloveme on Oct 27, 2021 2:16:26 GMT -5
Do I actively want it from him? No. I have accepted that this is simply something that he is not capable of engaging in.
But I still occasionally wish things were different. It would make things a lot easier.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 27, 2021 10:34:54 GMT -5
If you are feeling really good about your life - which I think would likely include your home and marriage - I'm curious why you googled up this forum? Not disputing your claim, per se - but I'm curious about your perspective. A lot of people - myself included - tend to compartmentalize elements of their life as a way of containing the cancer. "We have a great marriage except for one thing..." Do people do that with their sense of "home" and valued relationships? I think it depends a little on what I ever expected. I had always seen sex as the icing on the cake, ie something fantastic, but not a necessity. Its some womens twist on it that no man could be content without it but the truth is you can be. Content that is. It seems to be in some womens interests to exaggerate whats required and on offer beyond any drive they possess. I still love sex as much as ever and if circumstances allowed I’d be grateful. But until then I’ll survive and the W will have to pull her weight for a change. People survive without sex all the time - this is surely possible. Take a priest, for example. Catholic nuns. The commitment to celibacy is knowingly chosen by those participating. It's ensconced in an ecosystem of religious and social values and rituals and takes on a meaning from them. Support resources within the community help them with their celibate practice. This same intentional practice and support is unlikely to be found in a husband/wife union though. It's often thought of as indifference on the part of the averse partner - but it I don't think that's supported by the evidence in most cases. The ones that are bad enough to end up here risk the marriage, the family, the home. They metastasize into addictive coping behaviours and sometimes even harm to themselves or their abandoned partners. That's not small. That's not indifference or a bit of a mismatch in libido. It's more that it suggests that it is incredibly important to NOT have sex with one's partner, to the extent that the tradeoff is seen as acceptable. Think of the scale of aversion that must entail, when weighing one against the other, and choosing "no". People here focus on the presence or absence of the sexual act within the marriage. Lots of people here point out the practical futility of chasing after the "why" - because finding out the reason for aversion doesn't change whether or not the sex exists. However, there IS a reason for the aversion, whether knowing it or chasing it amounts to anything. I think this is where the majority of the damage occurs - because the refused person KNOWS there is a reason, and that the aversion is significant enough to risk the marriage and family, rather than have the sex that they really, absolutely, do not want to have with you. It's not that she's even mistaken in her priorities - this is an accurate reflection of her feelings. It hits at an intuitive level, night after endless night, as you smile and go to Thanksgiving and Christmas and vacations and dinners out. The cognitive dissonance in living that way is staggering, likely for both of you. |
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