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Post by jimforyouruse on Apr 5, 2022 12:08:42 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I'm 31 and have been married for 9 years and it has been sexless for the last 3 years. It started after we had our second baby, and my wife developed postpartum depression that manifested as rage. Our sex life with her rage was actually amazing but she needed help because we were afraid that she could hurt someone. So she went to the doctor and started taking Sertraline and it wasn't long before her mental health started to really improve. Right away we noticed that it was extremely difficult for her to orgasm when the problem used to be that I lasted too long. I would say that we shared the initiation of sex before this. My drive was always a bit higher than hers so whenever she wanted it she initiated and when I wanted it I initiated. But I noticed that after the meds I was the only one initiating.
This lead to what I call "duty sex" where she doesn't want sex but is doing it just for me. Duty sex before meds was rare and most of the time turned into sex that she enjoyed. Now every time was duty sex and she never enjoyed it. After so many years I have purposefully cut back on pursuing her physically as she was getting annoyed and it got hard to be rejected so much. I'll see her get out of the shower and think she is the sexiest woman in the world and I want her. I try to balance keeping this to myself, switching my compliments to something not physical, but still reminding her from time to time how I feel about her.
We have discussed that my needs aren't being met and she is too afraid to switch up her medication right now and I understand because the kids are still young and the concern over her hurting them or herself is much more important than my sexual needs. She assures me that it's just temporary but every day gets harder and harder. I miss my wife, I hate having to force myself to not pursue her, I hate that she has no desire for me physically.
Last year I feel into a depression. Just too many stressors were hitting me at once and I went to my doctor to get help. I'm on bupropion which helps tremendously with my mood and depression but it has one side effect that makes my sexless marriage much more difficult. My sex drive on this medication is incredibly high. Higher than what it was as a teenager.
I'm just not sure what to do. I can go off my medication and it will be easier to cope with the sexless marriage but have to deal with my own depression. I agree that it would be too risky now for my wife to change her medication right now.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 5, 2022 18:39:12 GMT -5
Might a lower dose temper the libido but still help your toleration of your difficult situation?
Sertraline/Zoloft is an SSRI. Sadly, Sertraline is reportedly one of the SSRIs with the least impact on libido.
There are some reports that adding Bupropion (Wellbutrin) to an SSRI can help. I suppose this would come as no surprise to you. Waiting for kids to be out of danger might be a long time. Don't know how old they are.
Maybe an SSRI instead of Wellbutrin would help your mood similarly and kill your libido to match hers or at least make it less frustrating?
Sorry to hear about your difficulties. Welcome to our refuge.
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Post by baza on Apr 5, 2022 18:54:36 GMT -5
This all looks like medical issues, and I ain't no Doctor.
Suggestion (if you haven't already done so)
Make an appointment for you both to see your medico and put all the cards on the table.
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 6, 2022 7:48:42 GMT -5
I would like to agree with baza here, but my own experience and the experiences of many others reflect the poor odds of the LL spouse keeping the med appointment. When I talked to my now X about seeing my Dr. to get a prescription for an ointment to be used just prior to sex she refused. She said she was already taking enough meds for her blood pressure and other aliments so she wasn't going to take anything else. Many posters here have had the same experience. Their spouse doesn't see the lack of intimacy as a problem, so they don't need to see a Dr. to be treated.
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Post by hopingforachange on Apr 8, 2022 7:59:12 GMT -5
I can understand what you're doing thru. My personal opinion is SSRIs should be the last antidepressant to try. The sexual side effects are horrible. There are other types of antidepressants to try. I think doctors are too quick to ignore the sexual side effects and even try to minimize them to female patients. My wife didn't believe me until her doctor said sex and orgasms don't matter.
She needs to talk with her doctor about this. There are other medications that work just as well that don't have the sexual side effects. If she doesn't say anything then you know she doesn't care about the marriage intimacy and that is your red flag.
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Post by lightbeam3076 on Apr 9, 2022 0:09:34 GMT -5
Hello. I'm a woman and I had major PP issues after my first. But, I wasn't as lucky as you guys in so far as I grew up with major cultural stigma issues about seeking help, didn't know how to ask for it, and was too proud to admit the scale of my problems or take the medication offered multiple times. I suffered for years until I fixed it.
Here's what I learnt from those experiences as a woman and this is the advice I'd personally give your wife: - this comes to an end but not because of the help of doctors. It is your body recovering from giving birth. In my own experience I didn't feel entirely back to normal until my youngest was 5 years old (but things got massively better by the time they were 3- the exhaustion doesn't help so learning to take a break, realise that having kids is a 'job' and take her away e.g. for a nice hike/ evening in a beautiful hotel, no pressure for sex but just a good night of sleep and a treat works wonders for morale) - until you come off the medication &/or contraception your natural sex drive (which sounds like it's perfectly fine in your wife's case) is unlikely to return. - Tracking your female hormone cycle and identifying the periods where rage/ anxiety is highest is work worth doing- I think you'll find it's hormone linked - that's something no doctor talks about and it takes a woman being highly in tune with herself to identify - You are what you eat. I can't say this enough and I can't keep saying it enough. Your moods, your chemistry, your rage- 95% of it boils down to what oil you put in your system. Doctors do not educate on this either. After having kids, the female brain and body is entirely depleted and it is this imbalance that leads to other imbalances. On this front, the best investment you could ever make for both of you in terms of depression is a radical change to diet and the supplements you take. You'll have no idea how to do this alone. You need to seek out a functional qualified doctor that became a functional nutritionist. They will do all the bloods, urines etc that doctors claim to do but the difference is they look to optimal measures (not those of sickness). For women who've given birth the most obvious supplements to start on are: - High doses of omegas- all of them - High doses of Vitamin B (especially B6/ B12 which directly impact moods) - High doses 1000iu+ of Vit D - High doses of Vit C - Magnesium Citrate There's way more but if you can't afford to see anyone these are the absolute minimum to try take every day.
Lastly, on the management of rage. I would reframe it as Expression. Talking from personal experience here- It's a great thing for a woman to show rage, it means she's alive, can express herself, and has the basic tools for a healthy form of communication- once she learns how to harness it. Most women are never taught how to express anything but polite courtesy. I would celebrate it. So for example, with my kids I now say "here comes mummy's volcano" "if you don't do what i ask it will errupt" "The lion is about to roar" and then I release it but in a more playful way where I get to have the bodily feeling of releasing rage, but also my kids and I can laugh about it. There's so much about embodiment and communication skills I could talk about that could be learnt but I think I'm at risk of overwhelming you with info here.
When it comes to you, hold on there. I promise it will get better but only if you both take your health into your own hands, don't rely on the doctors.
Good luck
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 11, 2022 15:25:47 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I'm 31 and have been married for 9 years and it has been sexless for the last 3 years. It started after we had our second baby, and my wife developed postpartum depression that manifested as rage. Our sex life with her rage was actually amazing but she needed help because we were afraid that she could hurt someone. So she went to the doctor and started taking Sertraline and it wasn't long before her mental health started to really improve. Right away we noticed that it was extremely difficult for her to orgasm when the problem used to be that I lasted too long. I would say that we shared the initiation of sex before this. My drive was always a bit higher than hers so whenever she wanted it she initiated and when I wanted it I initiated. But I noticed that after the meds I was the only one initiating. This lead to what I call "duty sex" where she doesn't want sex but is doing it just for me. Duty sex before meds was rare and most of the time turned into sex that she enjoyed. Now every time was duty sex and she never enjoyed it. After so many years I have purposefully cut back on pursuing her physically as she was getting annoyed and it got hard to be rejected so much. I'm just not sure what to do. I can go off my medication and it will be easier to cope with the sexless marriage but have to deal with my own depression. I agree that it would be too risky now for my wife to change her medication right now. This one has a medical component to consider, but I'll caution to not be overly dismissive of other causes that could also be true instead of the medical intervention, or simultaneously true. It's entirely possible to solve for the PPR but then find that the sexual aversion to one's partner is still present. Example, it's not uncommon for people to lose interest in sex with their partner immediately following the wedding and especially after children (men and women). While it might be attributable to some level of exhaustion (and this is often taken as a given), it's often not noticed that BOTH parents are often in the same marriage. In my case, it was hypothesized that maybe the birth control pill was interfering with her libido, so I had a vasectomy. This did not affect the apparent "libido problem" - which really turned out not to be a libido problem at all. In your example, in addition to the interference with some sexual function, you also have a second baby itself, which emotionally represents a further investment in the relationship. If there is a relationship issue (for example, a loss of confidence in the marriage, or that being married is the right choice), then it would make sense that it would manifest in increasing amounts at any significant investment event: buying a house, starting a business, moving away from friends and family, getting married itself - the wedding night, baby 1, baby 2. That's in addition to the medical issue, but also correlating exactly to it in the time frames. And the worst part of it is that it often gets into a sick loop in which the one partner (usually the father) sees it as his duty to reduce demands and defer the discussion around sex, as part of trying to be a supportive family member - and that might not be the wrong tactic. The problem is that it might defer a necessary discussion for YEARS. Tough spot.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 11, 2022 16:04:34 GMT -5
- this comes to an end but not because of the help of doctors. It is your body recovering from giving birth. In my own experience I didn't feel entirely back to normal until my youngest was 5 years old (but things got massively better by the time they were 3- the exhaustion doesn't help so learning to take a break, realise that having kids is a 'job' and take her away e.g. for a nice hike/ evening in a beautiful hotel, no pressure for sex but just a good night of sleep and a treat works wonders for morale) - until you come off the medication &/or contraception your natural sex drive (which sounds like it's perfectly fine in your wife's case) is unlikely to return. - Tracking your female hormone cycle and identifying the periods where rage/ anxiety is highest is work worth doing- I think you'll find it's hormone linked - that's something no doctor talks about and it takes a woman being highly in tune with herself to identify - You are what you eat. I can't say this enough and I can't keep saying it enough. Your moods, your chemistry, your rage- 95% of it boils down to what oil you put in your system. Lastly, on the management of rage. I would reframe it as Expression. Talking from personal experience here- It's a great thing for a woman to show rage, it means she's alive, can express herself, and has the basic tools for a healthy form of communication- once she learns how to harness it. Most women are never taught how to express anything but polite courtesy. I would celebrate it. So for example, with my kids I now say "here comes mummy's volcano" "if you don't do what i ask it will errupt" "The lion is about to roar" and then I release it but in a more playful way where I get to have the bodily feeling of releasing rage, but also my kids and I can laugh about it. There's so much about embodiment and communication skills I could talk about that could be learnt but I think I'm at risk of overwhelming you with info here. When it comes to you, hold on there. I promise it will get better but only if you both take your health into your own hands, don't rely on the doctors. Good luck On an Internet forum like this, a range of approaches are offered - usually intending care and coming from a good place, and also rooted in their own experiences and perceptions of what worked or didn't work for them. It's normal in some cases for people to come from, or to be talking to someone with a particular set of cultural mores, where advice or assumptions don't quite hold true as universal or even broadly general outside of that culture. I'm going to offer some disagreement on what I just read, so please take what you need: 1. I do NOT see evidence of success in restoring sexual intimacy in relationships in which either partner defers their sexual expression beyond a reasonable time frame past birth, including for exhaustion. In many Western cultures - and in much of the discussions in this group specifically - fathers take on increasing roles and responsibilities including becoming primary caregiver and often breadwinner with an intention of relieving the "exhaustion" of a sexually averse partner. It almost never has an effect on the sexual dysfunction. in many cases it is the exhausted primary caregiver who is seeking sexual expression with his or her partner, and denied. Both parties are in the same marriage. Frequently both are tired, and no amount of scented candles and takeovers of the other partner's responsibilities increases sexual enthusiasm. Empirical research in the field has been done as well, and it supports the anecdotal evidence we've seen on this board. 2. While I've commented upthread about mood altering medicines, you mention as well birth control medication. I've been through this myself - operating from that thesis - and going off the meds did not increase libido. Nor did a vasectomy increase anyones libido. You can do all this as troubleshooting, but don't hang your hopes on that being a magic bullet. 3. While proper nutrition is important to maintain health and may have a nominal effect on mood, the idea that your temperment is 95% affected by diet and supplements is a nutritional dogma cooked up in bad magazines and designed to send you straight to the quack medicine aisle, to give you the feeling that you have more control over your life than you do, because it's something you can actively do. Reality, once basics are met, is a combo between your your biology, coping strategies, and managing objective stressors in your life. 4. This one genuinely upset me. I think it unwise (and condescending) to dismiss abuse from a partner as "expression". Let me quote the OP here: "we were afraid that she could hurt someone". It's normal in a relationship to experience anger or hostility, but the expression of it must be channeled within healthy boundaries on the norm and the OP's quote indicates his experience falls WELL outside of that. I'm astounded at your response to it. Flip the genders for a moment and imagine yourself talking you your kids in front of your explosive husband, saying "here comes Daddy's volcano!" in a situation where you are concerned you might be hurt physically. It is acceptable within any relationship to have boundaries and to attach a consequence for crossing them. In an abusive situation, one such consequence could be a divorce. Validating the shitty behaviour of women at any cost out of some perceived historical debt (an assumed debt to people who aren't in the relationship) is unlikely to produce anything except more toxicity. I came from a complicated relationship where toxic behavior was a factor as well, and I respect the OP's attempts to channel and work through it with his invested partner, but it's also important to set boundaries and limits and to keep an eye on what's working - both with the rage and with the relationship itself. It is frequently the case that someone who is in a long term relationship they don't want to be in, ends up not presenting in that relationship as their best self.
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Post by lightbeam3076 on Apr 13, 2022 7:28:47 GMT -5
Thanks @aprocypha you are right that there's no one magic bullet and to understand comments in context of culture and upbringing. To your point on rage- I am the daughter of a mother who had a lot of pent up violent rage and then a husband as well. I am all too familiar with the experience of being at the receiving end of it and acting in the role of pacifier and mediator.
Neither knew how to 'manage' their rage. The lessons I learned from that is that this is a life skill that is worth learning. It is far healthier than letting it go unchecked.
I am not that good with words but this gentleman here says what I'm trying to say a lot better in a number of his videos (I don't always agree with him but on these points on the relationship between being accommodating, resentment and the expression of anger/rage as a healthy mechanism, I agree)... Here's an example: Hope that helps make my point better.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 13, 2022 7:49:30 GMT -5
Thanks @aprocypha you are right that there's no one magic bullet and to understand comments in context of culture and upbringing. To your point on rage- I am the daughter of a mother who had a lot of pent up violent rage and then a husband as well. I am all too familiar with the experience of being at the receiving end of it and acting in the role of pacifier and mediator. Neither knew how to 'manage' their rage. The lessons I learned from that is that this is a life skill that is worth learning. It is far healthier than letting it go unchecked. I am not that good with words but this gentleman here says what I'm trying to say a lot better in a number of his videos (I don't always agree with him but on these points on the relationship between being accommodating, resentment and the expression of anger/rage as a healthy mechanism, I agree)... Here's an example: Hope that helps make my point better. Thanks @lightbeam - I empathize. I also am the son of a mother who had issues with rage and alcohol, and of a father who didn't step in to impose boundaries on that expression when it was warranted. What resulted in that for me was likely an intolerance for bullshit and my cultivation as a bulwark against bullies. One of Dr Peterson's books was singularly pivotal for me in helping to pull myself out of a prolonged catastrophe following the end of my marriage. In the video you clipped, he hits on a couple themes that I often write about: 1. Finding a way to escape resentment, which can poison you and lead to hell. 2. Learning how to integrate the shadow - meaning - there's more to life than being nice; you (and many of us who find ourselves here) need to learn to be dangerous, but to control and manage that capacity to use it productively. (such as in having boundaries). There's more that he offers, such as the danger of underestimating people's capacity and intention toward malfeasance - of taking a bad situation and making it worse. I've certainly seen that in my own former marriage and can spot it much sooner now. I've used it to some success in my dating life as well, and dodged a few bullets. I appreciate the clarification and the direction of the advice here.
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