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Post by aimless on Sept 15, 2022 8:22:09 GMT -5
I completely sympathise. I get the whole ‘someone can have a low sex drive or no sex drive’ and therefore don’t want to initiate but where are the basics of making someone happy because you can! After all marriage is about compromise, give and take so why should this be any different? I’ve told my H numerous times that I can only get intimacy from him and that’s what I expected when I agreed to marry him. If the emotionally/sexual part of the marriage wasn’t on the cards for him then we should have just remained friends. It is so unfair of spouses to deny someone something they should be allowed to experience especially if you are a committed faithful person. I feel like I’m in a grieving process but trying to fill my head with positive things and fill up my time with things I enjoy doing which I hope will help. That’s always my question to her…if intercourse isn’t enjoyable, what about engaging in some other intimate acts? I don’t like everything that you like but I do it for you vacations plays movies etc…. It doesn’t hurt you to provide manual or oral stimulation every now and then. It doesn’t have to be your favorite. Even if she just wanted to be in the same room with me while I got to know myself a little bit… that would be something. So you don’t enjoy it in the same way I do. Fine it doesn’t have to be every day. But maybe once a week you can pretend that it’s important?
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 15, 2022 8:34:56 GMT -5
I know it’s crazy but I find myself wishing she has an affair. Then it’s not me for sure. I already know academically it’s not me but I feel like I would be totally off the hook. It would also be the only thing that could make me leave. I find myself thinking strange thoughts like “maybe she’s a closeted lesbian” and would be happier with a woman. I tell myself I would be supportive if that was the case. Your mind can really go to weird places. Let me throw this at you:....what about the day ( in the very near future) she up and says " the marriage is over I filled for divorce"? Stats show that 79% of divorce is the women filling for divorce. She could be any of those things you mentioned, or having an affair with another man. Sadly, in too many cases it comes down to the $$$!! All about power, control, and manipulation! As you read through the archives you will find references to books. No More Mister Nice Guy and Say Goodbye to Crazy! and Boundaries in Marriage. These books help you rediscover your self and realize the "why chasing " is futile. Better to to have a new beginning than continue down a destructive path. Better for the whole family. Even your refusing spouse!
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 15, 2022 8:38:38 GMT -5
That’s always my question to her…if intercourse isn’t enjoyable, what about engaging in some other intimate acts? I don’t like everything that you like but I do it for you vacations plays movies etc…. It doesn’t hurt you to provide manual or oral stimulation every now and then. It doesn’t have to be your favorite. Even if she just wanted to be in the same room with me while I got to know myself a little bit… that would be something. So you don’t enjoy it in the same way I do. Fine it doesn’t have to be every day. But maybe once a week you can pretend that it’s important? And if she pretended it was important, would you be happy with that response from her? Knowing she was faking, that it's just a sham, how would that work for you really?
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Post by aimless on Sept 15, 2022 12:26:59 GMT -5
Worksforme it would be progress. Not perfect but I would find it meaningful if she is doing something she doesn’t like because she cares about me. Of course I would prefer that she spontaneously becomes a nympho but short of that a gesture like this would be incredibly difficult for her and as such carry more not less value. I know that is not how many here see it but I would take some intimacy over No intimacy.
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 16, 2022 1:34:07 GMT -5
I know that is not how many here see it but I would take some intimacy over No intimacy. Everybody’s different, but many of us feel like a pervert if we have sex with someone who doesn’t want it. Some of us who’ve been there would opt for no sex rather than someone who clinically goes through the motions… I can do that by myself. DC
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Post by aimless on Sept 16, 2022 7:55:49 GMT -5
I know that is not how many here see it but I would take some intimacy over No intimacy. Everybody’s different, but many of us feel like a pervert having sex with someone who doesn’t want it. Some of us who’ve been there would opt for no sex rather than someone who clinically goes through the motions… I can do that by myself. DC And I have been there myself when it comes to intercourse that’s one of the reasons I stopped asking. my point is if she made the effort I would be receptive even if I knew it wasn’t her favorite. Not talking about forcing/coercing/convincing her. My point is merely that if she engaged in acts of intimacy short of intercourse I could see value and would appreciate the effort because I know that she’s not that into it so I would know that it’s for me. If she’s doing it with a big frown on her face and complaining the whole time that’s a different story. this is strictly referring to a voluntary act on her part to try and meet me part of the way on intimacy. And perhaps it’s because my relationship with her is otherwise good, that it would be meaningful. There’s not a lot of animosity or resentment, we work well as a team we have shared values with our kids and shared goals for our future, we both have successful careers and are supportive of each other. I’m not talking about “cold fish”… “let’s get this over with” i’m talking about a genuine effort to connect. I respect that other people may not be into it, but I would not feel like a perv for accepting whatever type of intimacy she is willing to offer. Part of my goal is to not make perfect the enemy of good. perhaps I hope that just having some kind of intimate contact will increase our bond. It’s starting to feel like really good friends.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 19, 2022 9:55:13 GMT -5
... it always ended with the same phrase from my wife….” I know I have to do better”... "Why?" "Excuse me?" " Why do you have to do better? Why not keep going like this until one of us dies?" <stunned silence> "...Because it seems to me, you're about to say, 'or else.....' Is there a second part? Because you don't seem to finish that sentence any time it comes up. I'm pretty sure there is a second part."
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 19, 2022 10:21:44 GMT -5
That’s always my question to her…if intercourse isn’t enjoyable, what about engaging in some other intimate acts? I don’t like everything that you like but I do it for you vacations plays movies etc…. It doesn’t hurt you to provide manual or oral stimulation every now and then. It doesn’t have to be your favorite. Even if she just wanted to be in the same room with me while I got to know myself a little bit… that would be something. So you don’t enjoy it in the same way I do. Fine it doesn’t have to be every day. But maybe once a week you can pretend that it’s important? As DryCreek has said, be careful what you wish for. You seem to be prepared for it, though. Good on ya. There's a lot of begging going on here. (No judging, I remember my own cringeworthy desperation unfondly) Assuming she's incapable of engaging with you, it may come to no longer giving her the choice opening the marriage and declaring it open if minimal marital behavior hasn't commenced by such-and-such a date (again, without "phoning it in") ironhamster suggests divorce, but stay together as an alternative and he may have a wiser plan. Same result, but no legal jeopardy and the clock stops on the alimony meter. Opening a marriage unilaterally has advantages too, but it's riskier. It lets the spouse initiate divorce on their schedule and blindside you, if they choose to. OTOH, it gives teh refuser a chance to come to their senses. Seeing someone else wanting you sexually can trigger a new appreciation for the physical side of things. I'm troubled about the barrel your refusing wife seems to have you over. You might benefit a little from reading some posts over at Dads Starting Over in terms of sticking up for your rights to an ordinary adult relationship. (essays are near the bottom of the home page, after all the ads for his books. He has podcasts if you'd prefer to listen in the car, rather than read essays) greatcoastal informed us about Dr. PsychMom; a marriage therapist who has a clue that sex is actually really important. Essays and podcasts available. Regarding the many sexless wives at ILIASM, I hypothesize that sexless wives show up here looking for help. Sexless husbands usually just cheat. (if they can) Generally, men don't ask for directions when they're lost. ILIASM.org guys are different creatures. ILIASM membership is pretty evenly split, but I think there are many more refused husbands. They just don't talk about it. They act. Just my best guess.
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Post by steve1968 on Sept 20, 2022 8:18:16 GMT -5
Brother aimless, I could have written your post. Sadly. Like you, no intentions of leaving. Jacking off is about all there is for me. Outsourcing would never be accepted. Sneaking an affair or escort date is next to impossible. Things were just fine until maybe 15+ years in. I find myself wishing I had just divorced her before I retired. At least I could have kept working for longer.
Getting her to change will be next to impossible. That leaves (1) live with it, (2) divorce, (3) outsource.
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Post by h on Sept 20, 2022 17:55:14 GMT -5
I think the worst part about it is that I can’t even talk to her about it. There’s no outlet for me to express my frustration because she feels judged and is defensive. And I am resentful that I have to end up apologizing all the time because she ends up crying. And because I have a generally optimistic and positive outlook, and I naturally get over things quickly she thinks everything is fine if she can just wait a day. That has led to us not even talking about it in years. She acts defensively because she knows she is in the wrong. She's crying to play the victim because she knows you'll fall for it, cave in, and apologize for upsetting her. Stop apologizing. Her tactic is called DARVO. Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender. She's making you feel guilty to shift the blame for the problem back to you.
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