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Post by cathman on Dec 24, 2016 10:49:05 GMT -5
I do not see much mention in this forum about the role that past sexual abuse plays in sexless marriages. I once heard a therapist say that if a person in a marriage and is suddenly not interested in sex then it is almost always the result of childhood sexual abuse. Is anyone here seeing a trauma informed marriage therapist, esp using emotionally focused therapy? Is your spouse seing a trauma informed therapist? Has anyone worked through this book with any success: www.amazon.com/Sexual-Healing-Journey-Guide-Survivors/dp/0062130730A good book about the effects of trauma is: www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748If there is trauma causing the sexless marriage it is important to remember that your spouse's brain, on a very basic level, thinks the abuse is still happening. That has helped me to gain some understanding, and forgiveness, for what my wife does. |
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 24, 2016 10:55:19 GMT -5
I asked my STBX a few times over the course of 25+ years and she says there was no sexual abuse or trauma. Personally, I think she either has very low testosterone or is simply asexual. She refuses to have her testosterone levels checked and vehemently denies being asexual.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 24, 2016 14:38:09 GMT -5
cathman, I'm with JonDoe on this one. I would think that my wife's behavior fits squarely with childhood sex abuse, but she denies any history. Or even that she has an issue with sex. The first hurdle is them admitting there's an issue. The second is them *wanting* to do something about it. Out of positive motivation, not fear of loss. Finally, accepting help. It's a rare thing to see here, that a low-libido spouse will cross even the first hurdle. They almost always place blame on the high-libido spouse.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 24, 2016 17:40:47 GMT -5
I'm aware of some re-covered memories that lead me to believe I experienced some form of "inappropriate contact" as a child but I am the refused and not the refuser. In this forum, I believe a lot of refusers have something that traumatized them around the subject of sex but rarely has it been an abuse like the type I think you mean. In my case - the inappropriate stuff got hidden and I've still not ever fully regained the details of it. The part that did traumatize me, though, was more like religious/spiritual abuse and that did cause some disconnects in my ability to speak up for wanting a healthy sexual relationship. So I never spoke up for what I did want and then resented what I didn't get. But in my case - I'm the child of an alcoholic and also became an alcoholic myself. I go to two different 12-step programs for these issues. In one (ACA, Adult Children of Alcoholics) a group member has used EFT and she has had good results. The therapist I see is a shame specialist and is helpful to me. None of which is entirely on the same point as what you bring up. I do think there are things that children have trauma and shame over that do not rise to the level of a label like "sexual abuse" but that still can cause major mental & emotional issues, such as some displayed by refusers whose spouses we see here. But like DryCreek says - they would have to first acknowledge that their approach to sex life, or lack of, is an issue. And most do not. |
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Post by baza on Dec 24, 2016 19:40:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately, in the old Experience Project / ILIASM group, there were a number of stories concerning childhood sexual abuse in refusing spouses that were extremely lacking in the credibility area. That is to say, there was a sudden (and convenient) recollection of childhood abuse, previously never mentioned to justify the sudden cessation of marital sex. Not to put too fine a point on it, a bullshit story, but very difficult to de-bunk. Potentially, a refusive spouses' "ace in the hole" to put up the shutters indefinitely. - Let me be quite clear here though, sexual abuse is a despicable act, and worthy of the harshest possible censure. And the victim warrants all possible support and assistance. - A bogus claim of sexual abuse, is an act just as despicable, and also worth the harshest possible censure. And the perpetrator of the hoax warrants exposure for the outright liar they are. - What's the truth though  ? Any accusation of such past abuse has to be taken very seriously. And, sad but true, some refusive spouses will stoop to the extraordinarily low level of making this claim when it ain't true. - I'm NOT saying this is the case in your deal Brother cathman. It is good that you have brought this subject up for discussion. I just wanted to make the point that in an ILIASM environment, some people have no qualms about telling outright lies. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 25, 2016 3:34:38 GMT -5
Unfortunately, in the old Experience Project / ILIASM group, there were a number of stories concerning childhood sexual abuse in refusing spouses that were extremely lacking in the credibility area. That is to say, there was a sudden (and convenient) recollection of childhood abuse, previously never mentioned to justify the sudden cessation of marital sex. Not to put too fine a point on it, a bullshit story, but very difficult to de-bunk. Potentially, a refusive spouses' "ace in the hole" to put up the shutters indefinitely. - Let me be quite clear here though, sexual abuse is a despicable act, and worthy of the harshest possible censure. And the victim warrants all possible support and assistance. - A bogus claim of sexual abuse, is an act just as despicable, and also worth the harshest possible censure. And the perpetrator of the hoax warrants exposure for the outright liar they are. - What's the truth though ? Any accusation of such past abuse has to be taken very seriously. And, sad but true, some refusive spouses will stoop to the extraordinarily low level of making this claim when it ain't true. - I'm NOT saying this is the case in your deal Brother cathman. It is good that you have brought this subject up for discussion. I just wanted to make the point that in an ILIASM environment, some people have no qualms about telling outright lies. Yup. Mine came out with this line when I tried to dump him. He played on my codependency issues knowing full well my reaction would be to cancel the split and work in fixing him. I hadn't had my own epiphany on codependency at that point. A few months later and lots of £££ on private therapy for him and he quit. Said it made him remember too much and that was too hard. Doubled his weed dose and went on new antidepressants. Sex drive still nil. Won't discuss the abuse (alleged). Threatens to visit doctor periodically re sex drive. But never makes an appointment. Dumping him for real end Jan  |
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Post by baza on Dec 25, 2016 6:07:56 GMT -5
This is yet another of those situations where the "why" doesn't matter.
His claim of sexual abuse may be true.
Or it may be a complete fabrication.
If there is not some real hard work going on by him to address this matter, then you can safely assume that it ain't going to be addressed - or that there is nothing to address because it's a bullshit story.
Either way, your choices are the same.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 31, 2016 10:09:24 GMT -5
"I once heard a therapist say that if a person in a marriage and is suddenly not interested in sex then it is almost always the result of childhood sexual abuse." There are some cases here where the refuser was very tepid about sex from the beginning of the relationship. I could buy sex abuse for those people. But in the majority of cases, there was a huge element of bait N switch involved. So I ask this question: if past sexual abuse is the problem, then why the "sudden" onset? ? If you can't answer this then I will continue to call BS on this, along the lines of Baz. In my case, my STBX fucked my brains out on our first date. No evidence of sexual abuse trauma that night. Or any other night, while she was fucking her way to the alter, until the day after the wedding. Years later, in two different sex arguments, she claimed she was raped (long before I met her), but never divulged any details. The circumstances were such that she was grasping at any straw to defend her enforced celibacy so she had no credibility with me on this. It was just another straw. I'm with Baz on this one, and with some personal experience in the matter. But if I'm wrong on this, or being cruel or insensitive, I'm all ears on the answer to my question. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 31, 2016 14:42:15 GMT -5
I believe that people can have buried memories return. I've had some. But it didn't just arbitrarily happen. In my Adult Children of Alcoholics group, we learn to reparent ourselves. In the course of this work, sometimes childhood memories pop up that we had buried long ago as a matter of psychological survival. It can be as bad as becoming a split personality sort of a problem in some (not in our regulars at my group, but I've seen one or two who never came back that I know had sexual trauma at varying ages). beachguy - your wife's timing is what makes her explanation so suspect for me. I wouldn't buy her story with someone else's money! But - if in therapy, if in self-examination, if it's a thing that changes in a continuum (rather than an on/off fashion at their convenience) - I do believe that there is so much shame when these incidents happen & families don't discuss it & the adults hope the young victim can't remember it or they believe that since "she was a troubled teen & asked for it" type of victim-shaming that takes place. It could happen. I would not believe that it was a wedding day ceremony that triggered a recall like that though. And still - if it DOES pop up & a person refuses to seek therapy to help cope with it, that's the same end result whether it is a real cause or not. Still, again, some more: the why behind another's actions is not the relevant point. YOUR WHY, why you stay, why refused accept the treatment from our spouses - that is the only why that matters to our course of action. |
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Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 2, 2017 14:41:59 GMT -5
I'm new here and catching up on the threads. My wife has the classic symptoms (and background) for Intimacy/Sexual Anorexia, having been abused by an uncle when she was 10, and then having her first actual sex at 16-17 in a classic 'date-rape' with quaaludes and forced oral. There were other difficult experiences for her (her Mom on thorazine & shock therapy during her early teens - and an attempted rape in broad daylight by some drunk! sheesh...) She was never able to tell her Mom about the Uncle's abuse (Mom's brother).
My point is that so much of this now makes sense from the lens of researching Intimacy Anorexia and the Avoidance Personality Disorder. It doesn't make it any easier to live with a person like that, but does make it somewhat more understandable and has lessened some of my anger over feeling that she was consciously choosing this path...
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Post by baza on Jan 2, 2017 15:32:25 GMT -5
That's the thing really.
In this case you know "why", but that knowledge does not materially change anything.
The same 3 choices confront you.
However, if the knowledge has at least "lessened some of (your) anger" that's a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 21:34:15 GMT -5
I do not see much mention in this forum about the role that past sexual abuse plays in sexless marriages. I once heard a therapist say that if a person in a marriage and is suddenly not interested in sex then it is almost always the result of childhood sexual abuse. Is anyone here seeing a trauma informed marriage therapist, esp using emotionally focused therapy? Is your spouse seing a trauma informed therapist? Has anyone worked through this book with any success: www.amazon.com/Sexual-Healing-Journey-Guide-Survivors/dp/0062130730A good book about the effects of trauma is: www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748If there is trauma causing the sexless marriage it is important to remember that your spouse's brain, on a very basic level, thinks the abuse is still happening. That has helped me to gain some understanding, and forgiveness, for what my wife does. It's not just sexual abuse. Any kind of childhood abuse can cause sexual difficulties later in life. If a child is unable to bond or unable to depend on his or her caregiver to comfort the child when it is crying or upset, it learns to depend only on himself. That then creates a situation where the child suffers from an Attachment Disorder. This is very common in the children of alcoholics or drug addicts. The Attachment Disorder then prevents bonding in adulthood based on a lack of trust. This is turn makes sex stressful, difficult and unpleasant, especially when in an emotionally intimate relationship like marriage. Most people who suffer with this have no idea it is what is causing their marriages to be sexless. |
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Post by baza on Jan 3, 2017 20:53:24 GMT -5
In my opinion, based on nearly 8 years exposure to EP ILIASM and this group, I believe that many many of the stories in here involve at least one spouse (and often 2) who grew up in dysfunctional environments, and promptly sought out similar partners to what they had seen and learned as kids.
Such dud childhood environments would include instances of sexual abuse, emotional abuse etc, which the kid takes on board (or develops unhealthy coping strtategies) and in turn visits the same thing into their adult life by getting in to a dud relationship similar to what they observed as kids.
And then, if they have kids themselves, they pass that on to the next generation.
The buck needs to stop somewhere, and as the "current" generation of "adults", WE are elected, like it or not.
If you are in an ILIASM shithole, and you have kids, you are running the risk - by your example - of them doing as adults what you taught them was acceptable as kids.
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Jan 31, 2017 2:01:22 GMT -5
A little late to the game but I thought it might intrigue some...
I am the refused in my marriage but I was the one traumatically sexually abused as a child.
I was assaulted by my older cousin, my babysitter,assaulted by one of our "family friends" and forced to stay the night at a home where the dad would make me and his youngest perform terrible things.
Because of the horrible, just awful, things that I have been through I can see how these things could affect desire (one way or the other). However, the everlasting effect on me has involved masterbation.
I feel disgusting and sometimes physically nauseous after I am "done" (although never truly relieved as most of you can relate). I hate seeing my own genitals. I'm okay with my body, I don't think I'm a super model, I am more of a comfy little mom look.
The act of masturbating is something I never look forward to and is done purely out of need to not lose my mind!
So for me, the subject of sexual assaults and their impact are pretty different than what you might initially think.
Also: I know it is totally natural and I am so okay with everyone doing it, even my denyer honestly, just me doing it is awful but I cannot always objectively state why.
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Post by baza on Jan 31, 2017 3:02:15 GMT -5
My heart goes out to you Sister mlm, this was despicable treatment for a kid to endure.
You do seem to have a handle on it though, but it must be tough to deal with.
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