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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:40:56 GMT -5
This is a fascinating article on intimacy, with stunning photographs. It's a bit lengthy, so pull up a chair. It's worth it though! I truly believe it's the lack of intimacy, not the lack of sex, that brings us all here. If we had intimacy, sex would follow naturally. The lack of sex is just a symptom. www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201701/getting-close |
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 2, 2017 12:33:40 GMT -5
The article has an interesting premise that ties in with some recent discussions here... intimacy is all about being vulnerable. Slowly exposing things very personal and risky about yourself, and finding acceptance and protection of your secrets. Which I suppose is what makes events like thebaffledking 's wife turning intimate moments into a public mocking ("that monkey thing") so very cringeworthy. Not only to find that trust was misplaced, but when you have to be guarded against your spouse there really is no hope for an intimate bond, only sex (at best). Boy, do I know this one. Further support for the theory of examining your future spouse's family as a very strong indicator of the kind of person they are at their core. Ah, the things we wish we knew back when... I.e., the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Although we'd like to think we don't need someone else to "complete us", I think it's hard to argue that a good relationship doesn't enhance who we are and what we can achieve. The article does seem to end abruptly on the topic of "what happens when intimacy is mismatched". That section seems a bit superficial, essentially saying "go find other people to have intimate friendships with", assuming that will be an adequate substitute for lack of a romantically intimate relationship. |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 2, 2017 19:46:44 GMT -5
Really good article Elle. I'm going to think and re read
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 2, 2017 19:52:10 GMT -5
A very good article it gets my hopes up for the future! With that I want to say, (as politely and discreetly as possible) my on line experience with other woman who have, or are going through a SM ,starts off very well on a friendship level as we share some common ground. Then,comes offering some words of intimacy (of the slightest amount) which seems like a good step to take for two people who are missing that, craving that, and have a strong need for the morale boost it would give them. Instead it is rejected. (no need for detail)
Honestly it leaves me scratching my head, wondering, what other issues might still be hidden? Not to judge all by a few. However, when it happens again, and again, well....
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Post by unmatched on Feb 2, 2017 20:47:05 GMT -5
A very good article it gets my hopes up for the future! With that I want to say, (as politely and discreetly as possible) my on line experience with other woman who have, or are going through a SM ,starts off very well on a friendship level as we share some common ground. Then,comes offering some words of intimacy (of the slightest amount) which seems like a good step to take for two people who are missing that, craving that, and have a strong need for the morale boost it would give them. Instead it is rejected. (no need for detail) Honestly it leaves me scratching my head, wondering, what other issues might still be hidden? Not to judge all by a few. However, when it happens again, and again, well.... What do you mean by 'words of intimacy'? My take on that article (and I guess my belief as well) is that intimacy is deepened by revealing more and more of yourself. If the other person chooses to reciprocate then the relationship deepens. If they don't, then it finds its own natural level. Some people you want to be more intimate with, and some you don't. And most of us only have a limited number of people in our lives we want to go really far with. Whatever intimacy is going to grow between you comes as a result of that process. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 2, 2017 21:07:40 GMT -5
A very good article it gets my hopes up for the future! With that I want to say, (as politely and discreetly as possible) my on line experience with other woman who have, or are going through a SM ,starts off very well on a friendship level as we share some common ground. Then,comes offering some words of intimacy (of the slightest amount) which seems like a good step to take for two people who are missing that, craving that, and have a strong need for the morale boost it would give them. Instead it is rejected. (no need for detail) Honestly it leaves me scratching my head, wondering, what other issues might still be hidden? Not to judge all by a few. However, when it happens again, and again, well.... What do you mean by 'words of intimacy'? My take on that article (and I guess my belief as well) is that intimacy is deepened by revealing more and more of yourself. If the other person chooses to reciprocate then the relationship deepens. If they don't, then it finds its own natural level. Some people you want to be more intimate with, and some you don't. And most of us only have a limited number of people in our lives we want to go really far with. Whatever intimacy is going to grow between you comes as a result of that process. What I mean by words of intimacy. By revealing ,sharing more of myself, by sharing a past experience, or a moment during the day when I wish I had someone else of the opposite sex to share it with me. It goes back to a surface relationship level, by being dismissed ,forgotten, overlooked, or rejected. That ends the process. |
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Post by unmatched on Feb 2, 2017 21:44:05 GMT -5
What do you mean by 'words of intimacy'? My take on that article (and I guess my belief as well) is that intimacy is deepened by revealing more and more of yourself. If the other person chooses to reciprocate then the relationship deepens. If they don't, then it finds its own natural level. Some people you want to be more intimate with, and some you don't. And most of us only have a limited number of people in our lives we want to go really far with. Whatever intimacy is going to grow between you comes as a result of that process. What I mean by words of intimacy. By revealing ,sharing more of myself, by sharing a past experience, or a moment during the day when I wish I had someone else of the opposite sex to share it with me. It goes back to a surface relationship level, by being dismissed ,forgotten, overlooked, or rejected. That ends the process. I wonder if that is a fairly normal part of the dating process? You reach out to people and very often it doesn't go anywhere. I think it is especially hard doing it online, because you don't really know what another person is thinking or wanting and without any personal contact it is very hard to gauge their reactions. I would hope as you are starting to reach out to people in real life, through your church especially, you get more of a sense of what people are reacting to and why. Then you will be better able to sense whether it is just the natural limit of whatever connection you are going to have with that person, or whether there is something you are giving out which is putting them off. If it is the latter you can do something about it; if is the former then keep looking - you will find your peeps! They are out there! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 21:50:24 GMT -5
greatcoastal, I'm guessing that not all the women you are dealing with online want to be intimate with men they meet online. You have to remember that some women in a SM will be very vulnerable. They might be poorly treated by the man in their life and therefore wary of men in general. Because of that, they may not want to reveal too much of themselves online. I'd leave it at that if I were you. You'd hate to scare someone off. Don't take it personally. Also, not everyone is going to click with everyone. Even online, there has to be some connection between people. You know how it is IRL. It's the same online. Take it at face value. But if it's happening to you a lot, then maybe reassess how you're approaching these women. Maybe keep a little more distance? Maybe wait until she reveals something intimate? Get the go-ahead first.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 2, 2017 22:00:43 GMT -5
What I mean by words of intimacy. By revealing ,sharing more of myself, by sharing a past experience, or a moment during the day when I wish I had someone else of the opposite sex to share it with me. It goes back to a surface relationship level, by being dismissed ,forgotten, overlooked, or rejected. That ends the process. I wonder if that is a fairly normal part of the dating process? You reach out to people and very often it doesn't go anywhere. I think it is especially hard doing it online, because you don't really know what another person is thinking or wanting and without any personal contact it is very hard to gauge their reactions. I would hope as you are starting to reach out to people in real life, through your church especially, you get more of a sense of what people are reacting to and why. Then you will be better able to sense whether it is just the natural limit of whatever connection you are going to have with that person, or whether there is something you are giving out which is putting them off. If it is the latter you can do something about it; if is the former then keep looking - you will find your peeps! They are out there! There is the rejection that goes along with the dating process. As my fading memory tells me. Like some of us on here, 24 yrs, give and take some years, the gears are rusty. I practically consider myself a born again virgin. Nervous ,and new on the dating seen like asking a girl to the junior prom. Yes without the personal contact it is hard to gauge there reactions. There is the establishment on -line that there is a huge distant factor, the odds of ever meeting are extremely low, and that we can at least boost each others morale by sharing some intimacy goals, compliments, stories, etc... in an adult caring, sharing, giving manor. Not some 1-900 phone trash talk, (which I have never heard, and would not be capable of doing). The next question is, Is it even worth it? Or better to look for someone in person? ( I hope this continues to keep with the article ) |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 2, 2017 23:32:42 GMT -5
Also, not everyone is going to click with everyone. Even online, there has to be some connection between people. You know how it is IRL. It's the same online. Take it at face value. But if it's happening to you a lot, then maybe reassess how you're approaching these women. Maybe keep a little more distance? Maybe wait until she reveals something intimate? Get the go-ahead first. Thanks for your honest reply! I am still learning more and more so bare with me! I am rather selective at who I reach out to,and start with a low key ,sharing of advice,connection. That doesn't mean I make the right choice! As far as not revealing too much of themselves on line? Much has already been revealed, and more gets revealed in pm's. Eventually building up to the next level (building more of a connection). I am wondering how much "scaring someone off" has to do with their own fears and doubts? I am also guilty of "riding in on the white horse syndrome" and wanting to help someone, "give", and receive something back. Even if it's not balanced. That's were the rejection, is not hurtful, but "disappointing". Watering down the approach, keeping a little more distance, waiting for her to reveal something intimate, and getting the go-ahead first, all reminds me of my 24 yrs of a SM. and look what it got me? With someone who "claims" they wanted me to be the leader and take control, when that was the last thing they could handle. I have to respectfully dis-agree with you there. Been there, done that, not playing that game again. Let me throw this out their. Look at it as an opportunity to learn, take a safer risk, stick your foot in the water, with another man. To open the door a little to the possibility that all men are not the same. Again, it's so valuable to me to be able to talk these things through with others , whose opinions I trust, and respect. Let us all continue to learn from each other. |
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Post by unmatched on Feb 3, 2017 0:14:42 GMT -5
Also, not everyone is going to click with everyone. Even online, there has to be some connection between people. You know how it is IRL. It's the same online. Take it at face value. But if it's happening to you a lot, then maybe reassess how you're approaching these women. Maybe keep a little more distance? Maybe wait until she reveals something intimate? Get the go-ahead first. Thanks for your honest reply! I am still learning more and more so bare with me! I am rather selective at who I reach out to,and start with a low key ,sharing of advice,connection. That doesn't mean I make the right choice! As far as not revealing too much of themselves on line? Much has already been revealed, and more gets revealed in pm's. Eventually building up to the next level (building more of a connection). I am wondering how much "scaring someone off" has to do with their own fears and doubts? I am also guilty of "riding in on the white horse syndrome" and wanting to help someone, "give", and receive something back. Even if it's not balanced. That's were the rejection, is not hurtful, but "disappointing". Watering down the approach, keeping a little more distance, waiting for her to reveal something intimate, and getting the go-ahead first, all reminds me of my 24 yrs of a SM. and look what it got me? With someone who "claims" they wanted me to be the leader and take control, when that was the last thing they could handle. I have to respectfully dis-agree with you there. Been there, done that, not playing that game again. Let me throw this out their. Look at it as an opportunity to learn, take a safer risk, stick your foot in the water, with another man. To open the door a little to the possibility that all men are not the same. Again, it's so valuable to me to be able to talk these things through with others , whose opinions I trust, and respect. Let us all continue to learn from each other. I think the difference is your wife was supposed to want you. She already claimed she loved you and wanted to spend the rest of her life with you. When you are starting to find new connections you need to put out feelers and see what comes back. Most people have boundaries. You need to be able to trust that someone you want to be your friend will respect your boundaries. And they need to learn that you will be gentle and respectful with theirs. Sometimes that process takes time. And sometimes the boundaries are not going to be where you want them to be. Often you just won't click or it won't go anywhere. That doesn't mean somebody doesn't want to take a risk. It just means you are not the right pairing. |
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 3, 2017 10:49:39 GMT -5
Let me throw this out their. Look at it as an opportunity to learn, take a safer risk, stick your foot in the water, with another man. To open the door a little to the possibility that all men are not the same. Again, it's so valuable to me to be able to talk these things through with others , whose opinions I trust, and respect. Let us all continue to learn from each other. I think this site has a unique dynamic because of the subject matter. While someone may openly discuss intimate topics in the public forum, they may not be comfortable having similar (or tamer) conversations privately. Then, they may not be compelled to spend the time required for a private conversation. While "social practice" might have its benefits, this might not be the right place or time for them, and you might not be someone they're interested in chatting with. And these are all obstacles before trying to expand the discussion to intimate topics, so if you go there and they don't, it'll kill the conversation quickly. So I guess the point being... it's not unlike real life. The nature of the site doesn't mean corners can be cut without taking risks. There still needs to be a legitimate basis for a private chat, and a rapport needs to be developed (which takes time) before you can try to expand the discussion. Don't be surprised when things don't even get that far. |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 3, 2017 13:09:37 GMT -5
OK, I've had an opportunity to read the article in more than "skim mode"
The best part I take from it is that intimacy isn't an on/off thing. It can ebb and flow over the course of time. It is also not necessary the same thing as "sexual".
An compelling argument could be made that many of us are more "intimate" with each other on this forum than we are with our own spouses (sad as that may be). Hell, I express things with this group that I haven't spoken about with ANYONE. I've also seen others pour out their souls, reading their posts thinking "man, I want to say something, but I've got nothing other than sympathy."
But that argument really isn't right either. Intimacy can't really be developed in an anonymous forum. We might know each others STORIES, but really can never KNOW each other truly. The article made reference to online dating. Real easy to lay it all on-the-line while on-line, but once the meet in person happens, difficult to live up to those expectations. True intimacy IMHO requires the full spectrum of human interaction, and that means face-to-face. There is so much missed online. We didn't evolve our thumbs to hold phones or click a "Like" button.
The hardest part about intimacy (as the article points out) is that it requires you to lay it on the line. And since not every chance at intimacy will bear fruit, you need to do it over and over and over again. One of the emotional skills I've been trying to develop is how to meet somebody and determine whether it will be worth the time, effort, and probable pain achieving true intimacy with somebody will be worth it. My current time frame is around a year and a half. It seems to be a good use of the time.
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Post by smilin61 on Feb 3, 2017 13:47:58 GMT -5
This is a fascinating article on intimacy, with stunning photographs. It's a bit lengthy, so pull up a chair. It's worth it though! I truly believe it's the lack of intimacy, not the lack of sex, that brings us all here. If we had intimacy, sex would follow naturally. The lack of sex is just a symptom. www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201701/getting-closeAwesome article ,elle.... keeping the this one and sharing it. Thank you! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 14:22:42 GMT -5
It's interesting that the premise of the article is that both people need to be open and are prepared to share their lifes and that's makes me think we are here pointing the fingers at our spouses and I wonder how much we have to take responsibility in the growth of intimacy. So I think while reading we need to look at ourselves and not just point at our spouses failures. I know reading this I definitely make it harder for anyone getting to know me as I am not an open book and have a tendency to internalize stuff - keep calm and carry on mentally.
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