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Post by WindSister on Feb 20, 2017 12:44:35 GMT -5
It's not SO hard to find. Insightful men/women are out there. (self-aware) It's about being aware of our own energy. Well.... I agree that agreeable/kind/compatible/reasonable/self-aware people are NOT so hard to find. I know lots of women (and men) in that category. But if one is looking for romance/LTR, the trick is finding someone who is that PLUS: sufficiently in the "same place" in life; with baggage that is not too burdensome for you; and -- of course -- with mutual attraction (physically, emotionally, intellectually). Said by Robin on How I Met Your Mother: "If you have chemistry, you only need one other thing: timing. But timing's a bitch!" lifestyle.allwomenstalk.com/lessons-to-learn-from-barney-and-robin/4www.scienceofrelationships.com/home/2013/5/23/chemistry-timing-relationship-success.htmlYes, timing can be downright cruel sometimes. I have always said it a slightly different way but the same meaning: "it's about finding someone who wants the same things as you, at the same time as you and WITH YOU." Robin's way is much more to the point. lol |
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Post by Dan on Feb 20, 2017 13:30:51 GMT -5
I quote the article: "What men want most of all is respect, companionship and sex . . . For this is the essence of being "loved well" in a healthy way." ... "If you supply these basics, your husband will do anything for you—slay the dragons, kill the beast, work three jobs, etc. Men will happily do this if, and only if, they are loved well in return. It is when men are not loved well that problems arise." ... "That’s because a husband’s number one goal is to please his wife. If he determines his wife cannot be pleased, that’s when the marriage is in trouble." The quotes that McRoomMate cites, I actually kind of agree with: these are things that are important to me and probably many if not most men. And in my current situation, I'm not getting them. But the reason I'm not getting them isn't -- in my opinion -- because my wife is "too alpha". (She doesn't have any of the affect in her personality that is classically alpha.) For me "loved well" includes a healthy, normal, mutually fulfilling sex life. Sometimes vanilla sex, and sometimes swinging-from-the-chandeliers-crazy-monkey sex. But something regular, and something mutual. In a different thread, I think it was Apocrypha who pointed out "some people are energized by sex, others feel it USES energy" and that is the core of the disconnect between my wife an me. UPDATE: found the thread -- this one. Apocrypha's verbiage was "Is sex a restorative thing or depletive?" |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 20, 2017 13:45:35 GMT -5
"In a different thread, I think it was apocrypha who pointed out "some people are energized by sex, others feel it USES energy"" I missed that thread, but oh I agree. Not sure if it's officially, scientifically linked or related, but in my experience I know my ex was drained from exercise (and I can only assume also from sex with me), where I was energized from it and ready to take on the world. My current husband is the same way as me. An invigorating hike up a tall peak can be foreplay for us. Also, I know after sex I don't usually experience that sleepy feeling but also feel energized. I witness that in my husband as well though we haven't officially talked about it. Now I want to, though! I love those talking points!  Edited to add: I know that "energized" can mean more spirirually/emotionally, too - and not just physically. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 20, 2017 18:08:37 GMT -5
I quote the article: "What men want most of all is respect, companionship and sex . . . For this is the essence of being "loved well" in a healthy way." ... "If you supply these basics, your husband will do anything for you—slay the dragons, kill the beast, work three jobs, etc. Men will happily do this if, and only if, they are loved well in return. It is when men are not loved well that problems arise." ... "That’s because a husband’s number one goal is to please his wife. If he determines his wife cannot be pleased, that’s when the marriage is in trouble." The quotes that McRoomMate cites, I actually kind of agree with: these are things that are important to me and probably many if not most men. And in my current situation, I'm not getting them. But the reason I'm not getting them isn't -- in my opinion -- because my wife is "too alpha". (She doesn't have any of the affect in her personality that is classically alpha.) For me "loved well" includes a healthy, normal, mutually fulfilling sex life. Sometimes vanilla sex, and sometimes swinging-from-the-chandeliers-crazy-monkey sex. But something regular, and something mutual. In a different thread, I think it was Apocrypha who pointed out "some people are energized by sex, others feel it USES energy" and that is the core of the disconnect between my wife an me. UPDATE: found the thread -- this one. Apocrypha 's verbiage was "Is sex a restorative thing or depletive?" I would point out a matter of clarity that is small but important. In context, I meant "sex" between the two partners, and not necessarily "sex in general" - although in a long term monogamous but celibate relationship, that's impossible to test. It's almost an axiom in my own post-marriage dating circles that, while they are gung ho for sex with me, there was almost always a period in the marriage where either they or their former partner went off sex. If you don't want to have sex with a person, no amount is too little. Every quantum of enticement is pressure. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 20, 2017 18:29:41 GMT -5
I don't agree with the terminology "Alpha" describing this phenomenon, but I have noticed a trend of misery among especially millenial women who have been brought up according to gender identity politics dogma that
a) compels them to obsess over being "strong" (do you ever see men talking about "being strong"?).
b) teaches them to hate men, or in some strange retread of Victorian chivalry, poses sexual interactions with men as being inherently exploitative.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 20:29:42 GMT -5
I'm Pink: 14% Low Alpha 54% High Beta At least there are 2 groups that are more "Beta" and wimpier than I am...... We may get along well. I scored in the yellow 54% High Alpha and 38% Mid Beta. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 20, 2017 21:49:30 GMT -5
I think there was a lot of generalizations in the article and it can't quite be that simple. However it does make sense to me on some levels. If I look at my husband and I, we are pretty traditional or "old fashioned" but in a good way - hes doesn't "stifle" or control and I don't "nag" or manipulate with tears -- I have staff that try that crap with me and it never works as I am on to the fact that crying can be a huge form of manipulation. ha. But, anyway, he is definitely the male energy and I am the female energy. This sounds bad when I say it out loud, but there are times I back down and trust him as my husband, put my own ideas aside and let him call the shots. Some women would absolutely go nuts with that idea and think that I am being abused or used or whatever. It's not like that, though. He does ask my input, we have long conversations about serious matters/decisions and we are both included. But in the end, if there are two separate ideas, unless I really felt strongly about something from my gut, I let him have the final say. Usually I do so by saying, "I trust you." If I do feel strongly about something and it's NOT just "my ego" vying to be the "victor" I will talk seriously and directly with him. He has come to my side those times. But not everything needs to be a battle. It's about direct and honest communication. Asking questions, not assuming and remembering we are on the same team. We have both been known to remind the other of that, in fact, if one forgets and starts getting mad... "hey, I am on your side..." That is a quick way to shut up that ego. I love having a man for a husband. My ex was passive - just PASSIVE and indifferent. My husband's ex was an alpha but also extremely passive-aggressive (can that be a combination??). I have seen it first hand from her, most recently when trying to help plan a bridal shower for the girls. Phew. Even when it came to the soda choices, she asked my opinion, I gave it. I asked her opinion and got, "oh, it doesn't matter, whatever you get should be fine." So I got "whatever" and she was pissed because it was wrong. I got, "Oh, I would have added some 7up to that list, but whatever, we will make this work." I swear I heard stabbing music in the background as she said that. lol But on the flip of being "passive aggressive," she would also control him in many ways and he literally felt it their whole time together until he broke free from it and felt what it was to be himself. He said any opinion he had, she had the opposite and it was always a battle. That gets old and tiring AND it breaks the bond/trust/connection between a couple. I've come up with my own summary on that. No intimacy = no communication No communication = no trust No trust = divorce. |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 22, 2017 7:09:39 GMT -5
I think there was a lot of generalizations in the article and it can't quite be that simple. However it does make sense to me on some levels. If I look at my husband and I, we are pretty traditional or "old fashioned" but in a good way - hes doesn't "stifle" or control and I don't "nag" or manipulate with tears -- I have staff that try that crap with me and it never works as I am on to the fact that crying can be a huge form of manipulation. ha. But, anyway, he is definitely the male energy and I am the female energy. This sounds bad when I say it out loud, but there are times I back down and trust him as my husband, put my own ideas aside and let him call the shots. Some women would absolutely go nuts with that idea and think that I am being abused or used or whatever. It's not like that, though. He does ask my input, we have long conversations about serious matters/decisions and we are both included. But in the end, if there are two separate ideas, unless I really felt strongly about something from my gut, I let him have the final say. Usually I do so by saying, "I trust you." If I do feel strongly about something and it's NOT just "my ego" vying to be the "victor" I will talk seriously and directly with him. He has come to my side those times. But not everything needs to be a battle. It's about direct and honest communication. Asking questions, not assuming and remembering we are on the same team. We have both been known to remind the other of that, in fact, if one forgets and starts getting mad... "hey, I am on your side..." That is a quick way to shut up that ego. I love having a man for a husband. My ex was passive - just PASSIVE and indifferent. My husband's ex was an alpha but also extremely passive-aggressive (can that be a combination??). I have seen it first hand from her, most recently when trying to help plan a bridal shower for the girls. Phew. Even when it came to the soda choices, she asked my opinion, I gave it. I asked her opinion and got, "oh, it doesn't matter, whatever you get should be fine." So I got "whatever" and she was pissed because it was wrong. I got, "Oh, I would have added some 7up to that list, but whatever, we will make this work." I swear I heard stabbing music in the background as she said that. lol But on the flip of being "passive aggressive," she would also control him in many ways and he literally felt it their whole time together until he broke free from it and felt what it was to be himself. He said any opinion he had, she had the opposite and it was always a battle. That gets old and tiring AND it breaks the bond/trust/connection between a couple. I've come up with my own summary on that. No intimacy = no communication No communication = no trust No trust = divorce. GC I respectfully disagree. It isn't A leads to B which leads to C which leads to D (divorce). I believe it is A + B + C = marriage score. Everyone has a lower llimit as to what that score is. When that limit is breached, things begin to give. I know people who fight like wolves but fuck like bunniee and it seems to work. Different strokes... Different folks. |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 22, 2017 8:19:26 GMT -5
I've come up with my own summary on that. No intimacy = no communication No communication = no trust No trust = divorce. GC I respectfully disagree. It isn't A leads to B which leads to C which leads to D (divorce). I believe it is A + B + C = marriage score. Everyone has a lower llimit as to what that score is. When that limit is breached, things begin to give. I know people who fight like wolves but fuck like bunniee and it seems to work. Different strokes... Different folks. I agree with you about the formula and I think the variable that was the issue is the C. C for communication. There are two parts to communication, not just speaking but also listening. Some of us here are too passive. That was probably my problem for a long time but the SM mindfuck plays a role in that too. Then there's the listening. Our spouses made it perfectly clear they don't want sex with us so then there's the lack of listening, avoidance on our part. I fully understand and accept my role in the lack of communication which contributed to the SM. I still think I should have said the words "if you don't start having sex with me and figure out how to be more intimate, affectionate and cultivate this relationship then I will be divorcing you". I never threw that ultimatum out there and I do regret that a little but not something I dwell on because honestly I shouldn't have to say that to my husband and I'm better off now and that is my truth. So lack of communication to me is really the reason for any marriage that turns into a shithole. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 22, 2017 8:43:43 GMT -5
I've come up with my own summary on that. No intimacy = no communication No communication = no trust No trust = divorce. GC I respectfully disagree. It isn't A leads to B which leads to C which leads to D (divorce). I believe it is A + B + C = marriage score. Everyone has a lower llimit as to what that score is. When that limit is breached, things begin to give. I know people who fight like wolves but fuck like bunniee and it seems to work. Different strokes... Different folks. We agree on many things , so lets talk it out some more! We will communicate about it, (just don't expect me to get intimate with you LOL....where was I?) Oh yea... Put it in reverse. In the beginning when you first dated your wife, when she was your girlfriend, you took a leap of faith, you opened up and had to give, that required trust. You also needed a return on that trust, she then showed trust in you. That leads to an open communication. The more trust, the more communication. That leads to intimacy. Trust, communication, and intimacy. Then comes the marriage. Generalizations are just that. So in general, when the intimacy gets rejected, it hinders the communication. That begins to erode the trust, the person you married put on a false mask the truth is exposed, you can not change them. It's time to save yourself and move on to better things. The fighting like cats and dogs is a form of communication, you both get your say. A controller rarely lets that happen. |
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Edited to add: I know that "energized" can mean more spirirually/emotionally, too - and not just physically. 
