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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:01:59 GMT -5
But in an SM, you are trying to be kind/romantic and what you are expecting to get in return is: kindness and romance! So it is just HARD to keep it up your side of the "contract" indefinitely because you are not getting the emotional returns you expect. Playing devil's advocate here, (and knowing that this should probably be on the SM forum and not here)... What I am saying is that your happiness should not be based on ANY expectations of reciprocation. In this case, and again I am speaking (mostly) theoretically, you decide to be happy, and to make your own life as pleasant as possible. Part of that is being as pleasant to your spouse without expecting anything in return, because being unpleasant will not add to your happiness and expecting things that don't happen will not add to your happiness. Perhaps this new attitude would turn your spouse around. Probably not. If it does, great; if not, you are not losing anything because you jettisoned the baggage. This brings up other questions, of course, as to why shouldn't you consider your own needs as part of the equation. And you should. If divorce is the best thing for you, then you should do it. I'm just thinking that for those of us who feel stuck and for whom divorce is not an option for whatever reason, an attitude change cannot hurt, probably would help reduce our own frustration, and there might be a bonus in which the spouse notices that they are living with a different person. |
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Post by Dan on Feb 23, 2018 13:15:11 GMT -5
I think we are actually saying the same thing. You suggest: I'm just thinking that ... an attitude change cannot hurt, probably would help reduce our own frustration... Which is what I was getting at in this: Between that revelation in therapy and my participation in ILIASM, I have lost that hope. Through much soul searching and even more participation in ILIASM, I have stopped grieving that there is no hope. My "attitude adjustment" was "I no longer feel sad for the lack of intimacy; I'm making a plan to exit". |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:18:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:50:45 GMT -5
Just saw this after my post saying the same thing....  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:42:56 GMT -5
greatcoastal , agree it's a lot like being in a SM. Except that in a job, we get paid to deal with the BS! Maybe if my husband paid me to NOT have sex with him??  I like this. It can be viewed a few ways: First, it can be viewed as a payment by the refuser to the refused to "just stop bothering me". Hush money, of sorts. Maybe you can conceive of a monetary value at which you would willingly agree to, well, stop asking. Second, it is a little bit like reparations paid by a guilty party to ease the pain they infringed on an innocent party. Just a straight up compensation for pain/suffering/harm. However, I'd add one more clause: the paying party has NO RIGHT to ask how any of these funds are being spent. Vacations? Sex-toys? Going out with friends? Going out with a romantic interest? In other words: this money can be spent in ANY MANNER, guilt free. What do you think? I like your idea. I have sometimes thought that if I did ever get back together with Mr. Kat, maybe we could strike some kind of deal. He gets to quit sex, but I get to pick out where we live (location and/or dwelling.) Or some other deal - that was just an example. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 23, 2018 23:45:55 GMT -5
Sure, courtesy has a place. But, I'd rather someone be a real asshole with me than a fake sweetheart. I have little patience for sticky sweetness that's not genuine. And I don't like sarcasm. It's a passive aggressive way to wave superiority over another, but most people seem to think it's a great character trait. I'm cold and aloof with my husband's ex because I'm not able to be a fake. But I'm the asshole in everyone's eyes, then. She just hides it. Good on her, I guess. I have the texts to show how shit crazy she can get (over trying to coordinate swapping grandkids recently) but shes a charmer, so she "wins." Oh well!! Just be real. I didn't kiss her ass and I feel good about myself.  |
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Post by LEXUS46 on Feb 25, 2018 1:47:23 GMT -5
SK.. I understand what you’re saying. It’s exhausting. I know for me, I was raised with the social etiquette of being polite and ‘act like a lady’ .... do everything with a smile, regardless if I liked it or agree with it.
Well, times have changed and I find myself being more authentic to myself......
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Post by Caris on Feb 25, 2018 12:12:51 GMT -5
But in an SM, you are trying to be kind/romantic and what you are expecting to get in return is: kindness and romance! So it is just HARD to keep it up your side of the "contract" indefinitely because you are not getting the emotional returns you expect. Playing devil's advocate here, (and knowing that this should probably be on the SM forum and not here)... What I am saying is that your happiness should not be based on ANY expectations of reciprocation. In this case, and again I am speaking (mostly) theoretically, you decide to be happy, and to make your own life as pleasant as possible. Part of that is being as pleasant to your spouse without expecting anything in return, because being unpleasant will not add to your happiness and expecting things that don't happen will not add to your happiness. Perhaps this new attitude would turn your spouse around. Probably not. If it does, great; if not, you are not losing anything because you jettisoned the baggage. This brings up other questions, of course, as to why shouldn't you consider your own needs as part of the equation. And you should. If divorce is the best thing for you, then you should do it. I'm just thinking that for those of us who feel stuck and for whom divorce is not an option for whatever reason, an attitude change cannot hurt, probably would help reduce our own frustration, and there might be a bonus in which the spouse notices that they are living with a different person. If it were that simple, not one of us would need this forum. We are all interconnected, as in “no man is an island.” If we could simply choose to be happy with no outside influence, we could all live alone without our basic emotional/physical needs being met. Other beings affect our mood for good or for bad. This is a fact of life. Sometimes, we can choose our attitude, and sometimes we can’t, it depends on our personality and circumstances. Sometimes in my darkest days, I do it anyway, regardless of the pain, other days, I need to be alone and grieve. Sadness, disappointment, and frustration is as much a part of life as joy and happiness. Whenever someone tells me they are “always” happy, I know that person is being inauthentic. Even the greatest of “happy” people, who always had a smile on their face, and made us laugh, were far from happy. Robin Williams and Jim Carrey to name just two. All I know is that when I was truly happy, I still didn’t smile much. It was an inner feeling of peace and contentment, and I never gave “happiness” much of a thought. It’s only those who pursue happiness that have to try and be happy. Well, it’s better to pursue meaning in your life rather than pursue happiness. As Viktor Frankyl said, “happiness ensues, it cannot be pursued.” Being meaningfully engaged in life, having people who love and respect you (and you them), having a job you enjoy, a social network, friends, and with luck a good family behind you, and being acknowledged by others goes a long way in creating what some call “happiness.” I say, each to his own. You know what brings you joy/happiness/contentment, and what does not. You can pretend to be happy, but that is all it is...pretense, and putting on a good show. I prefer “authentic.” |
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Post by wewbwb on Feb 25, 2018 12:40:41 GMT -5
Sure, courtesy has a place. But, I'd rather someone be a real asshole with me than a fake sweetheart. I have little patience for sticky sweetness that's not genuine. And I don't like sarcasm. It's a passive aggressive way to wave superiority over another, but most people seem to think it's a great character trait. I'm cold and aloof with my husband's ex because I'm not able to be a fake. But I'm the asshole in everyone's eyes, then. She just hides it. Good on her, I guess. I have the texts to show how shit crazy she can get (over trying to coordinate swapping grandkids recently) but shes a charmer, so she "wins." Oh well!! Just be real. I didn't kiss her ass and I feel good about myself. I'm a real asshole. Just saying . |
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