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Post by deadzone75 on Aug 28, 2022 10:45:51 GMT -5
For my marriage, I remember quite vividly my friends giving me a hard time because my wife and I hadn't "done it" after maybe 5-6 dates. I felt she was different, in a good way, than anyone else (and still feel that way). It's generally the woman's lead for sex initiation, at least for me. All I felt I I could do was "set the stage" and hope for the best. Sex was great once we started (prior to and into the marriage), then lessened to once per month after maybe 10-12 years. Like many here, I'd kill for once a month. I still remember the night, maybe 3 weeks after I'd moved in, when she looked at me in bed and said - can we just read tonight? LOL - I thought "what the heck?". I know quite a few women who "settled" because of the biological clock. Some worked out, some didn't.
Yes I definitely I also thought I would be able to manage the situation! The sex was great when it happened which was at least once a week in the early stages. I was sure I could improve on that with. But by the time we got engaged I was beginning to have my doubts, but 30th birthday was looming and I desperately wanted to start a family. I told myself it would be fine.
I had had a healthy variety of short and long-term boyfriends in my teens and 20's and had never had any issues on the bedroom front. I genuinely didn't think this could happen to me, a sexually confident, loving and warm young woman. I was able to talk in an upfront way. Surely we would just address the problem if it became one and all would be fine. Such optimism. I was very very niave indeed.
My sex life was already showing signs of worry when I was engaged. I was dumb enough to think that since I had heard marriage generally kills your sex drive, the opposite would apply to me. Kind of like, okay, the bad stuff is already out of the way. Or maybe part of me knew exactly what would happen.
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cobweb
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Post by cobweb on Aug 28, 2022 13:53:59 GMT -5
My sex life was already showing signs of worry when I was engaged. I was dumb enough to think that since I had heard marriage generally kills your sex drive, the opposite would apply to me. Kind of like, okay, the bad stuff is already out of the way. Or maybe part of me knew exactly what would happen.
How daft were we? I do feel I have to take some responsibility for getting myself in this situation. Like you, a part of me must've known that we were not starting off from a great place. I mean, who needs sexual counseling before the wedding night because it's not happening often enough? My husband should also take some responsibility for offering 'to have and to hold' but I did sort of make my own bed too....
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Post by deadzone75 on Aug 28, 2022 23:06:33 GMT -5
My sex life was already showing signs of worry when I was engaged. I was dumb enough to think that since I had heard marriage generally kills your sex drive, the opposite would apply to me. Kind of like, okay, the bad stuff is already out of the way. Or maybe part of me knew exactly what would happen.
How daft were we? I do feel I have to take some responsibility for getting myself in this situation. Like you, a part of me must've known that we were not starting off from a great place. I mean, who needs sexual counseling before the wedding night because it's not happening often enough? My husband should also take some responsibility for offering 'to have and to hold' but I did sort of make my own bed too....
But in our defense, normal sexual human beings can't comprehend not wanting sex...ever. It's just plain stupid. I mean, if you have access to it, and you took a vow to do it...that should be the one constant in life that you should be able to count on.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 29, 2022 5:08:23 GMT -5
I had the opposite approach. Dating a single woman could plant ideas of replacing my wife in my head. A single woman might well want that idea there. I deliberately sought married lovers. They might well be in my (our) same state. Why not solve the same problem twice?
... a guy I have known from around here for years and who I periodically bump into. He is divorced and has always been very flirty,...He even made a joke of a 'private viewing'. ... and I have not done anything to actively try and find someone to help me scratch that itch.
It is a very valid thought that you suggest finding another married man. I hadn't considered that. I have always looked very poorly on women who break up marriages.... Don't all men who want to play away come out with the line 'oh my wife doesn't understand me and we never have sex any more'? ...how would I know[?]... Depending on how charming the playuh has been and how careful he was, you may get a few more itches you'll need to scratch after you're done with him. When I was dating, My wife did not know. I was testing the waters to see if there was a chance outsourcing was an option for me, but I had not even met Kathy in person yet when my wife hard reset and withdrew me from the poly dating pool. So unsharing wives are a concern. Sort of. Sexlessness has wrecked most of the marriages you see here on ILIASM. You may save marriages, not mercy-kill them. As a married woman, you're not someone they can easily leave their wives for. They'd have to convince you to leave too. That's your opportunity to explain how the two of you might well end up right where you are now. You can talk some sense into him. A single woman might well be the kind of woman you don't want to be. A few women have turned their marriage around without a credible threat to their monogamy, not one guy has. You might pull it off. There's a negligible chance your married lover can. You may also save him a world of hurt by offering Baza's advice. If she doesn't know, you better prepare yourself for divorce if we do this. If she goes along with it, fine, but if she doesn't... you need to be okay with the hand grenade going off. Guys who have unwilling wives will tend to want to hide. Refuse. Have platonic components of dates in public spaces. Be seen together. Absolute kryptonite to a cheater. If you have the opportunity, you may be lucky enough to live in a semi-urban area where polyamory circles are already existing. Search Meetup.com for "polyamory". They often throw dinners at restaurants called a "munch" where they all meet each other. Any guy that shows up at these regularly is likely okay and some will be attending them with their wives. These guys commonly get fewer partners than their wives. No shock there. Your interest will be greeted with enthusiasm. Some of these folks can get really focused on consent of the refuser, be warned. Quite judgy. It depends on the crowd. If your husband isn't ok with you outsourcing, snide comments may come your way. I find their condemnation of the sexless bordering on cruel; their perfect bubble of consensual monogamy casting shade on mere "informed non-monogamy". 'Just divorce, you slime creature! Your marriage is defective anyway' seems to be the message of these holier than thou types; many not married or newlyweds. None having been sexless. Perhaps never having been in any relationship longer than four years. In the event you do this and your husband wants a new partner too, will you refuse? It sounds so stupid that you should be okay with both of you sleeping with someone else, but if that's what it takes to stay married? Is that a non-starter? As infuriating and non-sensical as you and I think it is? EDIT: You said you loved in a small town in other posts. So, apologies for letting that detail slip with the "semi-urban" thing. I guess that's for other readers.
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cobweb
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Post by cobweb on Aug 30, 2022 11:25:24 GMT -5
Sexlessness has wrecked most of teh marriages you see here on ILIASM. You may save marriages, not mercy-kill them. As a married woman, you're not someone they can easily leave their wives for. They'd have to convince you to leave too. That's your opportunity to explain how the two of you might well end up right where you are now. You can talk some sense into him. A single woman might well be the kind of woman you don't want to be. A few women have turned their marriage around without a credible threat to their monogamy, not one guy has. You might pull it off. There's a negligible chance your married lover can. In the event you do this and your husband wants a new partner too, will you refuse? It sounds so stupid that you should be okay with both of you sleeping with someone else, but if that's what it takes to stay married? Is that a non-starter? As infuriating and non-sensical as you and I think it is?
Lots in your post for me to think about before I embark on outsourcing and some very sound advice for sure.
Turning my marriage round into a full sexual relationship is now entirely off the cards. I no longer want that. But interesting to hear you say that men generally cannot turn a marriage around once it has become 'sexless'.
I see I need to think about telling my husband that I would like to outsource and allowing the fallout, whatever that may be, to happen. The sneaking around in constant fear would be truly stressful. However much I might deserve a sex life it still would be difficult to 'cheat' and to know how others would view my behaviour, especially close family. At least if I was able to stand next to my husband and say we both agreed it then everyone would have to shut up, or gossip away amongst themselves.
I have often imagined my husband finding someone else, male or female. I have not sexual desire for him and wouldn't be jealous if he found someone to have fun with. I would be furious if he did that whilst I was still battling on in my sexless marriage though. I would become a very mean and embittered woman!~
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 31, 2022 4:35:47 GMT -5
In the event you do this and your husband wants a new partner too, will you refuse? It sounds so stupid that you should be okay with both of you sleeping with someone else, but if that's what it takes to stay married? Is that a non-starter? As infuriating and non-sensical as you and I think it is?
Lots in your post for me to think about before I embark on outsourcing and some very sound advice for sure.
Turning my marriage round into a full sexual relationship is now entirely off the cards. I no longer want that. But interesting to hear you say that men generally cannot turn a marriage around once it has become 'sexless'.
I see I need to think about telling my husband that I would like to outsource and allowing the fallout, whatever that may be, to happen. The sneaking around in constant fear would be truly stressful. However much I might deserve a sex life it still would be difficult to 'cheat' and to know how others would view my behavior, especially close family. At least if I was able to stand next to my husband and say we both agreed it then everyone would have to shut up, or gossip away amongst themselves.
I have often imagined my husband finding someone else, male or female. I have no sexual desire for him and wouldn't be jealous if he found someone to have fun with. I would be furious if he did that whilst I was still battling on in my sexless marriage though. I would become a very mean and embittered woman!~ Ah, I said no refused husbands turn their marriages around without a credible threat to their monogamy. Either divorce or opening the marriage (which the refuser may respond to with divorce). Some refused wives have been able to convince their husbands before ultimatums or action. The vast bulk of refused wives have outsourced without informing their husband, divorced, or stayed sexless after they end up here. The rarity is those that outsource with their husband's knowledge. Given you're not interested in convincing him to be monogamous with you, "telling my husband that I would like to outsource" may mix your signals. If you decide to try this route, you may want to be crystal clear that he might play a role in "how" not "if". In your other main thread, when asked whether he was gay he said "I don't think so...." He may be bi-. Being straight can be easier in a small town, but if he's a mix of 80-20 or so, and homosexuality isn't the pariah status it once was, he may find the idea of letting his 80% side out to play enticing and his obligation to make the most of his 20% has flagged badly in the last few years. I hear you on the secrecy thing. I had every intention of telling my wife before consummating my relationship with Kathy. When she was told this was going to happen, Mrs. Mirrororchid recognized sexlessness had to be stopped. This, I understand, to be unicorn-level rare. I credit her, not me. You may want to consider in advance whether you'll require any lover to also be open to their spouse, if they have one. His needing to sneak around may chafe pretty badly too. You worried about breaking up marriages in the other thread. Such a requirement may help avoid that outcome. Other times, it may end up in divorce anyway because mandatory celibacy was the only way he could have stayed married, but is that on you?
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cobweb
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Post by cobweb on Sept 1, 2022 7:13:22 GMT -5
Ah, I said no refused husbands turn their marriages around without a credible threat to their monogamy. Either divorce or opening the marriage (which the refuser may respond to with divorce). Some refused wives have been able to convince their husbands before ultimatums or action. The vast bulk of refused wives have outsourced without informing their husband, divorced, or stayed sexless after they end up here. The rarity is those that outsource with their husband's knowledge. Heck it is all so complicated and taking up all my headspace! So much to think about and I am no closer to coming to a decision and making a plan. Maybe I will start the discussion with my husband by saying that a sexless future isn't an option and as I don't see he and I having a direct sexual relationship, perhaps he would like to consider joining me in investigating an alternative scene involving others. If he says no to that (almost 100% sure he would hate the idea, unless the latent homosexual in him spots and opportunity) I don't think I would subsequently need to announce that I am going to go out looking for a FWB.
It would be so much easier if I could just open the door to him again and take a gamble that this time it would be OK and he would committing to ongoing enthusiasm in the decades to come.
So much to think about.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 2, 2022 6:24:20 GMT -5
Heck it is all so complicated and taking up all my headspace! So much to think about and I am no closer to coming to a decision and making a plan. Maybe I will start the discussion with my husband by saying that a sexless future isn't an option and as I don't see he and I having a direct sexual relationship, perhaps he would like to consider joining me in investigating an alternative scene involving others. If he says no to that (almost 100% sure he would hate the idea, unless the latent homosexual in him spots and opportunity) I don't think I would subsequently need to announce that I am going to go out looking for a FWB.
It would be so much easier if I could just open the door to him again and take a gamble that this time it would be OK and he would committing to ongoing enthusiasm in the decades to come... Also, let me clarify. Outsourcing with husband's knowledge is the rare thing. Not that success is rare. Two ILIASM members gave that a shot. Jerri got lucky with another guy and stayed married. Lanie pretty much got your best-case-scenario. She got close to outsourcing with her husband's knowledge, but then her husband rose to the occasion, so outsourcing openly is 2 for 2 for the ladies. The sample size is small, and maybe I've missed other anecdotes, but it needs to be explained. Informed outsourcing has not yet been a marriage killer for wives, to my knowledge.
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cobweb
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Post by cobweb on Sept 2, 2022 9:05:49 GMT -5
Heck it is all so complicated and taking up all my headspace! So much to think about and I am no closer to coming to a decision and making a plan. Maybe I will start the discussion with my husband by saying that a sexless future isn't an option and as I don't see he and I having a direct sexual relationship, perhaps he would like to consider joining me in investigating an alternative scene involving others. If he says no to that (almost 100% sure he would hate the idea, unless the latent homosexual in him spots and opportunity) I don't think I would subsequently need to announce that I am going to go out looking for a FWB.
It would be so much easier if I could just open the door to him again and take a gamble that this time it would be OK and he would committing to ongoing enthusiasm in the decades to come... Also, let me clarify. Outsourcing with husband's knowledge is the rare thing. Not that success is rare. Two ILIASM members gave that a shot. Jerri got lucky with another guy and stayed married. Lanie pretty much got your best-case-scenario. She got close to outsourcing with her husband's knowledge, but then her husband rose to the occasion, so outsourcing openly is 2 for 2 for the ladies. The sample size is small, and maybe I've missed other anecdotes, but it needs to be explained. Informed outsourcing has not yet been a marriage killer for wives, to my knowledge.
Thank you for passing on your small but highly relevant survey results! Much appreciated and shows that anything is possible. Suddenly the world seems full of possibilities and choices which I hadn't really seen before. I will hang around on this site and learn from all the comments and issues that come up and work my way towards a decision, whilst keeping one eye open in case an opportunity happens along that nudges me one way or another.
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 2, 2022 10:57:30 GMT -5
Thank you for passing on your small but highly relevant survey results! Much appreciated and shows that anything is possible. Suddenly the world seems full of possibilities and choices which I hadn't really seen before. I will hang around on this site and learn from all the comments and issues that come up and work my way towards a decision, whilst keeping one eye open in case an opportunity happens along that nudges me one way or another.
I would also suggest you read the history of bballgirl. I believe she was the 1st here to successfully convince her H that her having a "FWB" was really in the best interest of maintaining the marriage. She hasn't posted in a while but if you have questions, I think any and all of the ladies will answer how they make it work.
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cobweb
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Post by cobweb on Sept 2, 2022 11:01:02 GMT -5
I would also suggest you read the history of bballgirl. I believe she was the 1st here to successfully convince her H that her having a "FWB" was really in the best interest of maintaining the marriage. She hasn't posted in a while but if you have questions, I think any and all of the ladies will answer how they make it work. Thank you. I will go and read about bballgirl. I would love to know how she convinced her husband to go along with the FWB idea!
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 2, 2022 11:23:14 GMT -5
Thank you. I will go and read about bballgirl. I would love to know how she convinced her husband to go along with the FWB idea! She took the long route… I recall she had partners without his knowledge, divorced him, moved out, then moved back in a couple years later for the benefit of their kids, among other reasons. So, they are divorced and she has her own love life, but they live together again platonically. I recall she concluded that she still wanted to be with him, but wasn’t going to sacrifice her sexuality. Breaking the financial linkage via divorce also changed the power dynamic between them. DC
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Post by shamwow on Sept 2, 2022 16:10:47 GMT -5
Heck it is all so complicated and taking up all my headspace! So much to think about and I am no closer to coming to a decision and making a plan. Maybe I will start the discussion with my husband by saying that a sexless future isn't an option and as I don't see he and I having a direct sexual relationship, perhaps he would like to consider joining me in investigating an alternative scene involving others. If he says no to that (almost 100% sure he would hate the idea, unless the latent homosexual in him spots and opportunity) I don't think I would subsequently need to announce that I am going to go out looking for a FWB.
It would be so much easier if I could just open the door to him again and take a gamble that this time it would be OK and he would committing to ongoing enthusiasm in the decades to come.
So much to think about.
Don't be sure the homosexual part of your husband is purely latent. ballofconfusion tried to turn her sexless marriage around. As it turned out, he was not only gay, but a raging sex addict. When he died last year, I was able to get into his Gmail, files, personal journal, and most distressing, his photo albums... Some things you cannot un-see. He had an entire secret life. One as a Catholic head of school and one as an out of control gay sex addict who died of a meth overdose with HIV, syphilis, and other STDs. If he were still alive he would have likely been patient 2 for monkey pox. If you suspect he is gay you may be lucky he's not fucking you.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 2, 2022 16:57:13 GMT -5
shamwow said: " He had an entire secret life. One as a Catholic head of school and one as an out of control gay sex addict who died of a meth overdose with HIV, syphilis, and other STDs. If he were still alive he would have likely been patient 2 for monkey pox."
Yes! I have two friends, both women in their 60s now -- whose first husbands had little interest in sex. The women were naive when they married and thought their husbands were just good Christians who respected them. The husbands grudgingly had sex enough to procreate then basically stopped. Both women eventually suspected their husbands of being gay. The women divorced after 10 or more years of marriage. After divorcing, both women's husbands came out as gay. One opened a gay porn shop and died of a drug OD. The most recent news on the other woman's husband was that he became an addict.
Back when I was religious -- Baptist -- the youth minister of my church told me he is gay and would go to redneck bars to find one night stands. He told me, too, that he had a "girlfriend" (who lived a convenient 1,500 miles away) and he was thinking of marrying her!! I did advise that he not do that to her. Fortunately, he ended up switching denominations to one that welcomed gays, and he's now a gay and out minister in one.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 2, 2022 23:35:04 GMT -5
Checking in after a long time. I received a notification that somebody liked this. This is probably one of the better post that I wrote. Although its old, it occurred to me to refresh it in case someone liked it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Im going to pitch in here with what has worked for me. Admittedly it has taken me a long time to get here. 3 or 4 years or so. First came acceptance, then letting go of resentment. But what has helped me the most is changing the narrative. Stop being a victim. Stop framing the story as what "they" did or didnt do. Stop moping about the relationship. Start thinking about you. Start thinking about what you did or didnt do for yourself this past month. The past 12 months. My thinking is we get so caught up in victimhood, or framing ourselves in the wrong context that we lose sight of ourselves. Do something nice for you. Do something that you enjoy doing. Do something to make yourself happy. Why depend on someone else for validation and happiness. Thats selling yourself short not to mention a huge burden to place on someone. Forget about sex for awhile. Put that energy into something else. For me its the gym. Lifting to the point of exhaustion. Bent over, panting, drenched in sweat. Find something to put your energy into with abandon. And while you are at it, start to sort your shit out. Get the finances in order. Start that savings plan. Get a part time job if you need it. Get fit. Nothing like exercise to clear the mind. Crank up the social life. Talk to 10 strangers a day. Where are they from? What do they do? Etc. Fix your car. Clean your garage, attic etc. Plant that garden. Bake that cake. Start that project. Take your kid hiking/canoeing/biking/camping. Call "that" friend or relative. Fill your fucking calendar because you have things to do and shit to sort out. There is no need to make a decision now about the relationship. Do that when your head is clear. But first you have to get there. Ask yourself if you are worth it. The answer should be "HELL YEAH". We must love ourselves first so others can love us.
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