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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 30, 2021 20:41:10 GMT -5
From Lancet, a well respected, peer-reviewed, scientific journal: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32802-7/fulltext Some poor results may be an issue of a poor understanding of which medication is optimal for which cases? Medicine commonly seems to be targeted to diagnoses where I've felt it might behoove doctors to correlate medications with improvement of individual symptoms to more specifically target those symptoms causing teh most distress and/or maladaptive behavior. Perhaps this shift is already in practice in certain locales. This speculation may benefit from experienced professionals with yet more up to date information or useful niche amendments to this survey. |
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Post by saarinista on Apr 1, 2021 10:26:23 GMT -5
In my experience, you have to just try, because different drugs work differently for different people.
There are no miracles.
But that said, there is awful, and there is better. I've taken venlafazine (Effexor) for many years and I'm slogging through.
Trazodone helped me for a while as a sleep aid, though formally it's an antidepressant.
Mirtazapine? I tried that for 4 days and stopped becayse it gave me nearly uncontrollable sugar cravings and did zero for my mood. Actually, gaining weight depressed me so I found it mood harming. However, some folks lose weight when depressed, so it might help them. Who knows?
Nothing makes me feel as good as a satisfying day at work, a good physical workout, or the joy of human love. But life is complicated, and those are in short supply for some, so antidepressants can perhaps bridge the gap.
For those who want to try the psychoparmacological route, I strongly advise finding a psychiatrist. If you just go to a non specialist doctor, they may or may not have a lot of experience with this stuff.
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Post by lessingham on Apr 3, 2021 3:28:33 GMT -5
In my quest for being normal I was on Prozac for about 6 months. I felt as if I had been coshed. Being very careful here as lawyers hunt down such statements, but I once read rather than being the revolutionary drug prozac only just scored above placebos.
I never found an anti depressant I liked or worked for me.
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Post by Handy on Apr 3, 2021 10:17:39 GMT -5
Synonyms for coshed include bludgeoned, clubbed, beat, pummelled and lambasted.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 5, 2021 18:43:35 GMT -5
In my quest for being normal I was on Prozac for about 6 months. I felt as if I had been coshed. Being very careful here as lawyers hunt down such statements, but I once read rather than being the revolutionary drug prozac only just scored above placebos. I never found an anti depressant I liked or worked for me. For your reference, Prozac's generic name is Fluoxetine. It is better than placebo and better tolerated than many. A reasonable first guess by your doc. Pretty standard. It is an SSRI. They are commonly the first to be tried. In the event an antidepressant would benefit you, SSRIs may not be the class that would work. Given your distress in your marriage, though, you have reason to be down and feeling hopeless. People with normal brain chemistry could be bummed in your situation. People with normal brain chemistry in your situation may, long term, alter their brain chemistry. I encourage fixing sources of stress and distress, check nutrient levels (several deficiencies are linked to depression such as Vitamin D and vitamin b12), then if all else is good and you're still suffering symptoms, then maybe a psychiatrist is needed. Talk therapy and medicine always being better than meds alone. (Your health insurer will have a differing opinion that preserves their shareholders' profit margin. Pills are cheap. Talk ain't, regardless of idioms.) A partial list of AntiDepressants and their classes: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK36406/table/ch1.t2/Drug Class Generic names
Selective Serotonin Re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs) Fluoxetine, Fluvoxamine, Paroxetine, Sertraline, Citalopram, Escitalopram Selective Norephinephrine Re-uptake inhibitors (SNRIs) Venlafaxine, Mirtazapine, Duloxetine 5-HT2 receptor antagonists Nefazodone Dopamine re-uptake inhibitors (DRI) Bupropion Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) Tranylcypromine, Phenelzine, Selegiline, Isocarboxazid Tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) Amitriptyline, Clomipramine, Desipramine, Doxepin, Imipramine, Nortriptyline, Amoxapine, Protriptyline, Trimipramine |
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Post by lessingham on Apr 6, 2021 3:16:41 GMT -5
My fight back from depression was due to pills! I hated prozac and the next set of pills the doc tried she totally screwed up the doseage I was on them a year before I, not her, discovered she was under dosing. I decided it was up to me, not medicines and so started the figjt backs. Therapy talk helped get me out of the darkest holes and I am on my own now. It is not easy but I can rejoice in the good days and enjoy the infrequent bad. The only anger I cannot release is hoe my life was destroyed by depression. I fell into the hole aged 18 and nobody helped. My family doctor told me I was malingering. My university counsellor said I was joking with him. Aged 40 I really was fucked up beyond compare with my secret shame and self harm. Being fighting the good fight ever since. My only advice I can give is there are an awful lot of rubbish docs out there who are out of their depth with depression. It's hard as being depressed means you accept this as typical for you nobody cares. But keep looking. My knight in shining armout was a criminal psychiatric doctor who gave a lecture. After we were chatting and he asked, "how are you?" I replied and he said, "liar, how ARE you?" He listened for ten minutes and ordered me, not suggested, to see a psychiatrist or else.
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Post by tamara68 on Apr 7, 2021 1:29:59 GMT -5
I have used sertraline for many years. It helped me but it also had unpleasant side effects. Therefore I lowered the dose to an absoluteminimum. Just enough to manage andso little that the side effects were acceptable.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 7, 2021 4:15:31 GMT -5
I have used sertraline for many years. It helped me but it also had unpleasant side effects. Therefore I lowered the dose to an absoluteminimum. Just enough to manage and so little that the side effects were acceptable Sometimes having a pill to take is all one needs. www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/10/27/499475288/is-it-still-a-placebo-when-it-works-and-you-know-its-a-placeboI have a troubling hypothesis that the weight gain associated with some antidepressants is part of what makes them effective. Sugar activates some of the same brain centers as cocaine. Sugar is commonly a "comfort food". If an antidepressant makes you eat sugar when you wouldn't ordinarily, you may start feeling a bit better because sugar is having psychotropic effects. One had my daughter eating cornflakes three meals a day. Everyone including her, was horrified, but flooding your bloodstream with highly processed carbs might elevate some people's moods. Surely dieting makes some people notably UNhappy. |
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Post by saarinista on Apr 7, 2021 13:44:25 GMT -5
I can't agree with your hypothesis at all mirrororchid, but it's interesting. |
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Post by catlover on Apr 7, 2021 15:40:17 GMT -5
I can't agree with your hypothesis at all mirrororchid , but it's interesting. "I eat because I am depressed, and I get depressed when I eat" |
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Post by JMX on Apr 7, 2021 23:48:22 GMT -5
FFS - everyone. Try a carnivore diet - call it an elimination diet if it makes you feel better.
Start with the most basic nutrients needed for brain health - you know, how we actually evolved - fatty meat.
Then, once you regulate - add back in one thing at a time and see if you have reactions.
All of our food is killing us. Physically or mentally. It’s not rocket science.
In the least - if it lists ingredients you cannot pronounce - pull it out of your shopping cart. It should be ingredients you don’t have to think about. Things that are natural. If you are still sick, pull back to meat only. Then add shit back in and see how you feel.
You’re welcome.
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Post by catlover on Apr 8, 2021 5:08:39 GMT -5
Very dangerous for non medically qualified people to be handing out psuedo medical advice.
I was about to rip you a new arsehole but decided I would be wasting my breath. It makes me furious to see "advice" like this. So many people also believe you can just "snap out of it" , try snapping out of a broken leg, for example, or, changing your diet is a magic solution. Yes both are crippling,and both can be life threatening.
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Post by petrushka on Apr 9, 2021 7:14:41 GMT -5
I remember this report on Prozac: The company that developed the drug basically submitted 'test data' that was whitewashed. They omitted reports from test subjects who got terrible headaches, and they omitted suicide rates. They tested the drug on prison in-mate 'volunteers'. I've been very wary of antidepressants since. I have read research that they do result in an increased suicide rate -- one explanation given is that they may just lift the severely depressed to an energy level high enough that they manage to actually go through with the suicidal thoughts (frequently a symptom of the condition). I also know that some of them can result in potentially fatal dependency. My mother was put on citalopram in the mid-phase of her dementia and when I dug a bit I found that sudden increases or sudden cessation can have severe, potentially fatal results. Food for thought. {shudders} JMX just in case Caris still wanders these halls, you'd better get a kevlar helmet and some flame proof underwear! Remember the shit storm that broke out over my head when I dared joke about the little carrots screaming as the vegetarians pull them brutally out of the ground?!? catlover well, yeah, most people fortunately never have the need to learn that there are differences between being sad because your kitty got run over by a bus "snap out of it", having SAD (seasonal affective disorder) because Tromso only has 4-5 hours daylight in winter and you get poked into a sunroom by your doctor with a bunch of other people, or having a full blown clinical depression where neither of the above will help. How I got out of clinical depression once I cottoned on to what was going on? 1 - I ditched stress. I rang the revenue and told them I would file late since I was sick. I cancelled every appointment. I made 3 rules: 1 - make sure I have one meal a day. 2. get up out of bed, hard as it may be, and brush my teeth once a day. 3 - feed my dogs every day. Other than that: no stress. I was in the lucky position of being able to do that because I worked for myself. I also asked other people to look after my un-dodgeable work meanwhile. My energy levels returned after some 6 weeks of rest. At that point, getting out in the sun and taking the dogs for short walks may have helped in the recovery. Maybe I was luckier than some. I did it without drugs, in any event. My motto was: the strong oak stands against the storm, and breaks. The willow bends with the wind and survives. Something I had read some place. ( I can attest that some willows don't). Anyway ....
footnote: I had two severe bouts of depression in the '80s, about a year apart. I survived. Looks like depression gave up on me and hasn't tried it on since.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 10, 2021 4:57:10 GMT -5
I've been very wary of antidepressants since. I have read research that they do result in an increased suicide rate -- one explanation given is that they may just lift the severely depressed to an energy level high enough that they manage to actually go through with the suicidal thoughts (frequently a symptom of the condition). If a patient dumps antidepressants, it might go the other way too. They drop the meds, they can lose energy, start to stay in bed a lot and emotionally despairing they end it while they have just enough energy to carry out the plan. Good point about having a tapering plan when quitting meds. I understand Effexor (venlafaxine) has a wicked quitting regimen. One recommendation was to take another antidepressant before going off the last small dose of it. You get withdrawal even when you're barely taking anything, say the case studies. www.mdedge.com/psychiatry/article/103869/depression/venlafaxine-discontinuation-syndrome-prevention-and-managementChosen for its approachable format. I prefer .edu and ,gov sites. Another strategy to prevent discontinuation syndrome is to initiate fluoxetine—an SSRI with a long half-life—before taper; maintain fluoxetine dosage while venlafaxine is tapered; and then taper fluoxetine.
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Post by saarinista on Apr 10, 2021 12:45:45 GMT -5
My suggestion as a patient is don't ever stop taking meds without a health care provider's advice. You might get sicker! This is true even if you feel the medication itself didn't help.
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