|
|
Post by kilotango on Aug 26, 2022 8:04:53 GMT -5
Greetings everyone,
I'm KiloTango. This is my first thread, though I've been perusing the message boards for a while. I'll try to provide some short backstory before I move onto my questions. I am a male in his mid-30s, dating and married for 6 or 7 years. The sex life was moderately good in the beginning, but now that I look back on it she never really initiated- and when she did, it just seemed awkward. Like someone who understood the physical motions and was trying to imitate them.
Anyway, the sex was ok. Fast forward to now, and I'm getting laid maybe once every 2-3 months. It might be less. I once tried to track it on a spreadsheet, and the resultant data was so depressing I gave up.
My spouse appears to have no sex drive. I firmly believe that- she just doesn't care for sex, never thinks about it, and could happily do without in perpetuity. So whatever meager amount of sex might occur is solely for my benefit. (There have occasionally been random comments about how "unimportant sex is" and suchlike.)
So my questions are:
1. Is it reasonable to want a partner that desires you physically?
2. Is it reasonable to want sex more than (let's say) 4 times a year?
3. Is it normal that, without sex, my outlook on my marriage has shifted more to a roommate mindset?
*The more I think about it, the frequency is an issue, but the lack of desire bothers me more.
|
|
|
|
Post by heelots on Aug 26, 2022 14:19:03 GMT -5
Greetings everyone, I'm KiloTango. This is my first thread, though I've been perusing the message boards for a while. I'll try to provide some short backstory before I move onto my questions. I am a male in his mid-30s, dating and married for 6 or 7 years. The sex life was moderately good in the beginning, but now that I look back on it she never really initiated- and when she did, it just seemed awkward. Like someone who understood the physical motions and was trying to imitate them. Anyway, the sex was ok. Fast forward to now, and I'm getting laid maybe once every 2-3 months. It might be less. I once tried to track it on a spreadsheet, and the resultant data was so depressing I gave up. My spouse appears to have no sex drive. I firmly believe that- she just doesn't care for sex, never thinks about it, and could happily do without in perpetuity. So whatever meager amount of sex might occur is solely for my benefit. (There have occasionally been random comments about how "unimportant sex is" and suchlike.) So my questions are: 1. Is it reasonable to want a partner that desires you physically? 2. Is it reasonable to want sex more than (let's say) 4 times a year? 3. Is it normal that, without sex, my outlook on my marriage has shifted more to a roommate mindset? *The more I think about it, the frequency is an issue, but the lack of desire bothers me more. If you don't have kids, get ASAP. I promise you this will only get worse. Yes you have a roommate, no I do not think your marriage is normal. If you are not already in separate beds, at some point in the future you will be. Also, any resentment you have will get much worse. In the end if you are determined to stay the only relief you will find is the point at which you totally give up on anything with her and always keep in mind she is only a roommate. The longer you stay, and the more you accumulate in the way of home, retirement savings etc. You will realize you may have reached a point that you will be too old to rebuild retirement savings to a point that will not leave you virtually destitute if you divorce and have to give her half. You are still young enough that you can start over after giving her half of whatever assets you have. Like you, I knew early things were bad. In my case, kids came, then divorce for me was no longer an option since I could not accept being a part time dad.Fast forward at 25 years of marriage the kids are grown and almost out. I am 60 and have only saved a modest sum for retirement. Married it will be enough to allow us to maintain a modest middle class standard of living. If we divorce, I would likely be cash strapped and living in a studio apartment at best. For some, that is good enough, but for me I do not want to go to my grave eating PB&J, beans and rice, macaroni and Ramen noodles. I already spent too much of my life like that and never want to go back.i waited too long and am now stuck in a prison of a marraige until I die. Do not make the same mistakes I made. If you can bail now or you likely face a situation like I am in. Go back and read my introductory posts explaining my situation and I think you will find it similar or worse than what you are living. Skip cheating, just get the hell out ASAP is my advice if at all possible. Good luck to you brother. |
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Aug 26, 2022 16:28:16 GMT -5
In many states, if you are married at least 10 years, you have to split half of your assets and debts with your partner. And, as heelots wrote,the longe you're maried the harder it is to get out.
Your expectations of marriage are reasonable. Your wife seems to be asexual as she has no interest in sex. Your sex situation is likely to only get worse if you stay.
My advice is to consult a lawyer to find out how a divorce could play out. Often the first visit, the consultation, is free.
|
|
|
|
Post by h on Aug 26, 2022 17:53:42 GMT -5
See a lawyer asap and get out quickly. The longer you wait, the worse it will get.
|
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 26, 2022 18:33:05 GMT -5
In many states, if you are married at least 10 years, you have to split half of your assets and debts with your partner. And, as heelots wrote, the longer you're married the harder it is to get out. Your expectations of marriage are reasonable. Your wife seems to be asexual as she has no interest in sex. Your sex situation is likely to only get worse if you stay. My advice is to consult a lawyer to find out how a divorce could play out. Often the first visit, the consultation, is free. ILIASM member Apocrypha would specify "Asexual with you". This is wise because you don't want to be blindsided if your ex-wife is seen hanging all over teh next guy. This is not necessarily a reflection on you. In polyamory circles, they call it NRE (New Relationship Energy). The silly goofball hormones that have you making baby-talk you regret later. Northstarmom has a point about determining when the alimony switches over. Sometimes it's a ratio of half the length of the marriage in which case making a decision more quickly can make sense. There is doom and gloom abounding here. Some situations do recover, but every one of them seems to be with a dire threat of seeking intimacy outside marriage, either by opening the marriage, or divorcing and being intimate with the next spouse. It's not clear whether you've conveyed you are at a breaking point. Maybe you aren't yet. Do you have a bare minimum in mind? How klong will you give it before you move forward with outsourcing or divorce/ Or, is your marriage important enough to you to stay without any commitment to more frequent intimacy? Are you ready to pull the pin on the grenade if your minimum is not met? |
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Aug 26, 2022 19:54:08 GMT -5
1. Is it reasonable to want a partner that desires you physically? 2. Is it reasonable to want sex more than (let's say) 4 times a year? 3. Is it normal that, without sex, my outlook on my marriage has shifted more to a roommate mindset? One dude’s opinion… 1) Yes. That is, it’s reasonable for you to seek a partner who desires you. But… if you’ve chosen poorly, it doesn’t oblige your spouse to fit your mold. 2) For most people here, absolutely. But that bar is very much a personal one / what’s right for a given couple. There have been folks here who achieved a regular frequency of multiple times a day. For many of our refusers, their bar is “never”. You’re not going to have much success in forcing the bar to move, but rather finding someone who matches your level of interest. 3) Sure. Your expectation of marriage isn’t being met, so it’s natural to not feel “married”. DC |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Aug 26, 2022 20:39:58 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother kilotango - "So my questions are: 1. Is it reasonable to want a partner that desires you physically? 2. Is it reasonable to want sex more than (let's say) 4 times a year? 3. Is it normal that, without sex, my outlook on my marriage has shifted more to a roommate mindset?" These expectations are all reasonable and normal. They are usually sorted out during the courtship / dating stages of a relationship. However, it doesn't follow that your aspirations are in alingment with the other persons view of what is normal or usual. So when you are looking for a life partner, many candidates eliminate themselves from consideration because your views don't match up with theirs in key area. Sex would be one of the key areas where your views - and theirs - are simply incompatable. If this is the case in your deal then usually you don't proceed with hooking your lives up as a couple, or if you have then you undo it asap. Your view is "right" - for you. Her view is "right" - for her. There's not much point in apportioning blame in these situations. It is what it is. You are both "right" |
|
|
|
Post by kilotango on Aug 29, 2022 10:38:59 GMT -5
Greetings everyone. Thank you for all your swift and kind replies. I appreciated the insight. If it's okay, I'd like to ask a few more questions and hope to get some replies.
To this point I have not enunciated any bottom-line requests or specified any minimum frequency. My philosophy is that if I have to beg/wheedle/argue/cajole for sex from someone... well, I'm not sure I want it. I am aware some couples try to schedule events, but to me this seems like sexuality with my partner has been demoted to mopping the floor or doing dishes. Not exciting.
There have been two developments. One- the other night, my spouse actually said she had no sex drive or desire whatsoever. I already knew this subconsciously, of course, but it was still jarring to hear. But it's in the open now, and I don't think I can keep pretending everything is OK for her benefit. Two- I have consulted with an attorney. We have no kids, no real shared property, no debt, and separate bank accounts. It should, in theory, be an exceedingly easy divorce due to irreconcilable differences. The attorney even recommended a website to print the necessary forms, and I have done so.
I said above in theory. That's the problem. My spouse can be very emotional. in fact, yelling/screaming/showing anger is one of her strategies to get what she wants. Sadly, this usually works. I expect what should be a simple, adult process- "you have no sex drive, I do, this can't be rectified"- will be very unpleasant. This is ironic, since in the past she has used separation as a sort of complaint or threat mechanism.
She'll probably claim I "owe her" more time and effort to improve the marriage. Failing that, she'll probably claim I owe her a long-planned vacation to an exotic destination. (This is also ironic. The last four vacations were utterly sexless; that was one cue that this might not be fixable.)
So, I guess my questions are: how much more time am I "obligated" to sink into this? Are there any other efforts I should, in good faith, make? And how does one deal with a partner who cannot or will not react calmly?
Thank you for your time.
|
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 29, 2022 11:59:57 GMT -5
So, I guess my questions are: how much more time am I "obligated" to sink into this? Are there any other efforts I should, in good faith, make? And how does one deal with a partner who cannot or will not react calmly? Thank you for your time. IMO you do not have an obligation to sink anything more into a failed relationship. It's like asking how much money should be sunk into a clearly unprofitable business model. One should be instead looking to limit damage and loss as much as possible. Given your circumstance I would be retaining that attorney and I would be developing as fair a separation agreement as possible. Be generous without being foolish. As to her not reacting calmly, if she throws a temper tantrum turn any future communication over to your attorney. |
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Aug 29, 2022 15:47:25 GMT -5
kilotango: "I said above in theory. That's the problem. My spouse can be very emotional. in fact, yelling/screaming/showing anger is one of her strategies to get what she wants. Sadly, this usually works. I expect what should be a simple, adult process- "you have no sex drive, I do, this can't be rectified"- will be very unpleasant. This is ironic, since in the past she has used separation as a sort of complaint or threat mechanism."
You are one of the luckier ones here. You haven't been married long (6-7 years isn't look when you compare your situation with the many people here who've been married 20-30+ years), you have no kids, or complicated financials. You also are YOUNG!
As for your wife's tantrums: You don't have to listen to her. You can walk away, leave the house (but so you aren't charged with abandonment, don't move elsewhere without consulting your lawyer first.)
As for how much you "owe" her in terms of further time in the marriage: NOTHING! Since she has no sex drive, she is not capable of providing you with the kind of marriage you wanted, the type of marriage that most people want. Think about it: if you'd known she had no sex drive, you wouldn't have chosen to marry her!
Also, even if she had a sex drive, would you want to spend the rest of your life with a woman who acts like a toddler to get her way? Ugh.
And you don't need her permission or approval or agreement to divorce her nor does she have to understand your reason for divorcing her.
I strongly suggest also investing in therapy so you don't make the same mistake when it's time for you to seek another partner. I suspect that there were a lot of red flags you overlooked going into the marriage.
One last thing: Faced with divorce, many women refusers suddenly fake sex drives and "accidentally" get pregnant, thus trapping their partner. So, don't fall for that. If she does become sexually available and you decide to proceed, use a condom, don't depend on her. There are many sad stories here about men who were trapped into remaining married because of an "oopsie" baby.
|
|
|
|
Post by heelots on Aug 29, 2022 18:21:24 GMT -5
Greetings everyone. Thank you for all your swift and kind replies. I appreciated the insight. If it's okay, I'd like to ask a few more questions and hope to get some replies. To this point I have not enunciated any bottom-line requests or specified any minimum frequency. My philosophy is that if I have to beg/wheedle/argue/cajole for sex from someone... well, I'm not sure I want it. I am aware some couples try to schedule events, but to me this seems like sexuality with my partner has been demoted to mopping the floor or doing dishes. Not exciting. There have been two developments. One- the other night, my spouse actually said she had no sex drive or desire whatsoever. I already knew this subconsciously, of course, but it was still jarring to hear. But it's in the open now, and I don't think I can keep pretending everything is OK for her benefit. Two- I have consulted with an attorney. We have no kids, no real shared property, no debt, and separate bank accounts. It should, in theory, be an exceedingly easy divorce due to irreconcilable differences. The attorney even recommended a website to print the necessary forms, and I have done so. I said above in theory. That's the problem. My spouse can be very emotional. in fact, yelling/screaming/showing anger is one of her strategies to get what she wants. Sadly, this usually works. I expect what should be a simple, adult process- "you have no sex drive, I do, this can't be rectified"- will be very unpleasant. This is ironic, since in the past she has used separation as a sort of complaint or threat mechanism. She'll probably claim I "owe her" more time and effort to improve the marriage. Failing that, she'll probably claim I owe her a long-planned vacation to an exotic destination. (This is also ironic. The last four vacations were utterly sexless; that was one cue that this might not be fixable.) So, I guess my questions are: how much more time am I "obligated" to sink into this? Are there any other efforts I should, in good faith, make? And how does one deal with a partner who cannot or will not react calmly? Thank you for your time. You summed things up well. I would say have sex with her under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, cover your bases with an attorney as suggested by others and pull the ripcord on this shit show and get the hell out of Dodge, ASAP! Best wishes for a safe and happy landing! |
|
|
|
Post by heelots on Aug 29, 2022 18:48:58 GMT -5
You mentioned what I call, " pity sex" or doing her duty so to speak. As you suggested, that is an absolute hardon killer and nothing any sane man or woman for that matter with even a shred of dignity would ever have interest in!
For me, that was the final blow that sealed the deal. At this point if she was spread eagle in front of me, foaming at the mouth and begging for it I wouldn't give her a second look.
And that explains where you end up if you stay in a marriage like this for decades.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Aug 29, 2022 23:59:13 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother kilotango ... "So, I guess my questions are: how much more time am I "obligated" to sink into this? Are there any other efforts I should, in good faith, make? And how does one deal with a partner who cannot or will not react calmly?" ... Q1 "how much more time am I "obligated" to sink into this?" This is entirely at your discretion Brother kilotango . Q2 Are there any other efforts I should, in good faith, make? Not really, you have made all reasonable efforts already. Q3 "And how does one deal with a partner who cannot or will not react calmly?" Best idea is when the histrionic bullshit starts, walk away and don't engage. Be aware that her histrionics wii probably get worse when you walk away. Also beware that sometimes (when the histrionics don't work) you missus may react with wheedling and tears and attempts to lay a gigantic guilt trip on you. I think at this stage of proceedings you need to concentrate on you and your future - not her and your past. As previous members have noted, don't be a party to getting her pregnant. |
|
grower
Junior Member
Posts: 79 
|
Post by grower on Aug 30, 2022 7:48:46 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. Before you hire a lawyer, maybe a couple
of sessions with a family/sex therapist to see if there are some issues
you are not in tune with. If that goes nowhere, ditch and run. No kids
and minimal assets, a paralegal may get it done, if you are agreeable.
|
|
|
|
Post by heelots on Aug 30, 2022 8:33:33 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. Before you hire a lawyer, maybe a couple of sessions with a family/sex therapist to see if there are some issues you are not in tune with. If that goes nowhere, ditch and run. No kids and minimal assets, a paralegal may get it done, if you are agreeable. With due respect, I totally disagree with this advice. Seven years in she has shown what she is about. Right now you have the great fortune of no kids in the picture. So let's say you and she see a sex therapist and things seem a bit better, then you get her pregnant, then you win the booby prize of her turning right back into what you have now. So much for your fresh start and clean getaway, now you will be on the hook for the next 18 years and depending on your makeup you may just stay hooked to the plow to raise the kid...... Guess what, your seven year marraige just turned into a 25 year marraige and you will live just as I have for the last 25 years! Do the smart thing for you, cover your legal bases and get the hell out ASAP! Don't ever risk your chance at a fresh start like you have now by having sex with your frigid roommate again! Go while you are blessed to be able to get out so painlessly. The longer you stay, the worse this will get... |
|
