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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 16, 2024 21:14:29 GMT -5
...in the convolutions of an LTR ... My female partner, ...sex was certainly fun, but it was also part of the bedrock of intimate, shared trust and mutual support that I think is so very crucial for two spouses/partners. And I have always really worked very, very hard to make sure my "significant other" felt loved and supported,... I don't want this to come across as an indictment of my partner, You said partner and S.O. a few times and never actually said she was your wife. Is she? In either case, you need a lover. If she's your wife, that's super tricky. If she's your girlfriend, she needs a helper and I might uproariously guffaw if she sees fit to object. I'm assuming you have reasons to stick around. White knight syndrome, maybe?
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Post by alotlefttogive on Jan 16, 2024 23:23:41 GMT -5
Hi, and thanks for the recent posts about my introduction. As far as questions, no we are not married, thankfully. We did, about 8 years ago, see a counselor, but it turns out the counselor had her own problems (seriously) and kind of vanished. My partner's other effort at counseling/therapy seems to have turned into an effort to find other blame-worthy excuses for her behavior, including her utterly narcissistic mother, etc, and therefore she never actually addressed her own issues. She is very much on the D.A.R.V.O. spectrum- all I can say is that I hope you don't know what I'm talking about in that regard. Again, this is behavior I had never experienced before, and had honestly never imagined could be possible - who would?
I have always understood (in my own naiive way) that once you're an adult, especially over 30 years old, you are responsible for what you say and do, period. That does not resonate with her. And yes, I went to a therapist myself as well, an older woman with an impressive career history as a therapist with a very comprehensive background. She was skeptical, which is what I hoped for, because she asked me a lot of tough questions that required introspection and honesty. Maybe I was more of a problem than I thought? Anyway, after quite a few sessions, my therapist said "she has shown you who she is, now you have to decide how you are going to deal with your situation." And I've kept my nose to the grindstone, but I am obviously a fool.
Well, that's enough for now, thanks to everyone.
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week5of35years
Junior Member
Think I may be out of a SM... @the Talk in Nov '23 and progressing well so far....
Posts: 90
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by week5of35years on Jan 17, 2024 4:02:35 GMT -5
Hi, and thanks for the recent posts about my introduction. As far as questions, no we are not married, thankfully. We did, about 8 years ago, see a counselor, but it turns out the counselor had her own problems (seriously) and kind of vanished. My partner's other effort at counseling/therapy seems to have turned into an effort to find other blame-worthy excuses for her behavior, including her utterly narcissistic mother, etc, and therefore she never actually addressed her own issues. She is very much on the D.A.R.V.O. spectrum- all I can say is that I hope you don't know what I'm talking about in that regard. Again, this is behavior I had never experienced before, and had honestly never imagined could be possible - who would?
I have always understood (in my own naiive way) that once you're an adult, especially over 30 years old, you are responsible for what you say and do, period. That does not resonate with her. And yes, I went to a therapist myself as well, an older woman with an impressive career history as a therapist with a very comprehensive background. She was skeptical, which is what I hoped for, because she asked me a lot of tough questions that required introspection and honesty. Maybe I was more of a problem than I thought? Anyway, after quite a few sessions, my therapist said "she has shown you who she is, now you have to decide how you are going to deal with your situation." And I've kept my nose to the grindstone, but I am obviously a fool.
Well, that's enough for now, thanks to everyone.
welcome alotlefttogive and thanks for your sitrep... I am a recent joiner here and have been fixing for a few months now... soem of the insights i have picked up here that have been key for me are 1) 2yrs seems to be a breakwater for getting past the "honeymoon hot sex phase" and into the "this is the rest of your life phase" I have seen this time and again, and wish (maybe like you) I had known about this and cut my losses in yr3 when I was 23 ;-)....much earlier. 2) A lot of LLW's or zero intimacy W's seem to act as if there had been a discussion and some kind of agreement between both parties that there would be no sex or that poor behaviour would/will be tolerated... the declined is then left in an awful situation of trying to navigate what has been said and done that led to the current circumstances.... luckily in your case, you are not married so do not have to put up with the bullshit and can move from presenting her with your reasoned ultimatum's on behaviours to becoming single if you want.... Hope to hear more in your thread!
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Post by anita12345 on Jan 17, 2024 23:13:19 GMT -5
Hello Everyone
l never in my life imagined I’d be on this forum. I’ll begin by saying everything else in our relationship is fine. He’s an amazing, hard-working loving man. A wonderful best friend. He is Not into PDA, but no one is perfect…but sometimes when we are out in public I feel like we are friends. I get jealous when I see a man squeeze his wife’s but or grab her in public. Previous to my current circumstances I’ve never had an issue with other men rejecting me. I am considered by my peers and friends to be attractive and personable. I’m a successful person. We met online 5 years ago and at first the sex was HOT. I am very sad to say I am now in a sexless relationship which began a few months into dating, and got worse after we moved in together. The average frequency is about once every three or four months, and always because I initiated and threw a tantrum. having sex while feeling like he is obligated makes me feel unattractive and undesirable. I love to be submissive, so having to be the pursuer ruins my experience. Otherwise we only kiss and hug and that’s it. I do know he’s had some childhood sexual trauma and he’s open about it, but curiously, that never stopped his desire when we first met. He used to be in therapy but they put him on several different concoctions of SSRIs, which I think added to the problem, so he stopped going and stopped taking meds. The infrequent sex is robotic and not pleasurable, which is in stark contrast to how hard things were when we first met. when it is good, I make sure to remind him to keep the momentum and ge agrees but to no avail. I have confronted him politely and suggested counseling which he says we do not need. He says “ I’ll fix it” but no actions are taken. Most if the time if I bring it up we end up arguing and I’m accused of having a one-track mind. He claims to have ED but I know it gets hard, and there are remedies he won’t take. I explained I’m open to ANYTHING no intercourse needed, I’ve purchased toys, lingerie send him sexts all the time, you name it. I’ve suspected infidelity or that maybe he’s got theMadonna/ whore syndrome a No proof yet of infidelity. I am so desperate for flirty passion with him because right now, the vibe feels like he’s my gay best friend. I know he’s into woman, but am unsure what the deal is. I just don’t get it! I’m here for knowledge and support. I don’t want to stray on him and I have told him how frustrated i am.
I have needs and other men are constantly hitting on me, which reassures me, but I want the attention from him.
I am here for any advice and insight. thank you
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 336
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Post by m76 on Jan 17, 2024 23:29:22 GMT -5
I never in my life imagined I’d be on this forum. Previous to my current circumstances I’ve never had an issue with other men rejecting me. Hi my name is Anita Hugginkiss and I am in a sexless relationship. The average frequency is about once every three or four months, and always because I initiated and threw a tantrum. Otherwise we only kiss and hug and that’s it. I know he’s had some childhood sexual trauma but that never stopped his desire when we first met. He used to be in therapy but they put him on several different concoctions of SSRIs, which I think added to the problem The sex is robotic and not pleasurable, which is in stark contrast to how hard things were when we first met four years ago. I have confronted him politely and suggested counseling which he says we do not need. He says “ I’ll fix it” but no actions are taken. He claims to have ED but I know it gets hard. I explained I’m open to ANYTHING no intercourse needed, I’ve purchased toys, lingerie send him sexts all the time, you name it. I’ve suspected infidelity or that he’s got theMadonna/ hoar syndrome and can’t fuck his good girl? I am so desperate for flirty passion because I feel like he’s my gay best friend. I’m here for knowledge and support. I don’t want to stray on him but I have needs and other men are constantly hitting on me, which reassures me that I am not the issue. I am here for any advice. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be a member of. It sounds like he absolutely needs counciling but I know as a man sometimes it's hard for us to admit when we need help. I'm not sure how to approach "the talk" with him but I know it'll have to be addressed soon before resentment sets in further.
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Post by l0nelylady on Jan 18, 2024 0:58:09 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I've been married to my husband for 5 years, and together for almost 10, and we are both in our mid 30s.
Even in the beginning of our relationship, I thought the frequency we were physically intimate seemed to be less than I was used to in past relationships. I mean we were in our 20s, both at peak physical fitness, no health issues, etc. and he only wanted to have sex like once a week. I chalked it up to him only having one sexual partner prior to us getting together and him being somewhat inexperienced. So I tried my best to engage him in anyway I could, but did not get great results. He would often turn me down with various excuses. When we did have sex it was not usually very enjoyable for me, and he did not want to put effort into my pleasure, like no interest in any kind of foreplay. I started to wonder if he was not attracted to me, or women for that matter. And when I asked him about it, he would insist that he was heterosexual and very attracted to me.
Over the next few years, he ended up with PTSD (we were both in the military) and this resulted in years of him being on anti-depressants, therapy, and even requiring transcranial magnetic stimulation. During these 3-4 years, we had sex once a year if I was lucky. I was also very understanding during this time and did not pressure him at all, I just wanted him to get better.
After a dramatic mental health improvement, I was hopeful that maybe our sex life would begin to improve as well. I also stupidly hoped that once we got married, maybe that would somehow change things. But even on the 10 day honeymoon, my husband did not want to have any physical intimacy. I think we had been married about 6 months before he agreed to consummate the marriage. This carried on for the next couple of years, and I started resenting him and becoming full of doubt and insecurity. Was he having an affair, lying about his sexuality, have a hidden porn addiction, something that explained this behavior??? I started wondering if I stepped out of the marriage, would he even care? (I have never cheated on him to this day.) I eventually told him I was interested in getting a divorce if this didn't improve because I want kids and a normal physical relationship with my husband. As a result, he begged me to give him another chance and he began to have sexual relations with me once every 3-4 months, but afterwards he would make comments about being able to cross that off of his "to-do" list. Which definitely did not make me feel desired. And it was NOT good sex, it was him clearly trying to get it over as quickly as possible, again with no regard to my enjoyment.
After being together for 8.5 years, I got pregnant with our daughter. Everyone I knew whispered to me how great pregnant sex would be, but I already knew my husband would use the pregnancy as an excuse to withhold all forms of physical intimacy for 9 months (and he did). I was cleared to resume sexual activity at my 6 weeks post-partum visit, and I told him I was ready whenever he was. Our daughter was a very colicky baby though and we were very sleep deprived so any chance for romance was almost impossible, so we didn't resume physical intimacy for a while - but I did not hold this against him. Neither of us was in the mood while she was sleeping at our bedside in a bassinet, and he kept saying how thing would improve between us once she was able to sleep in her crib, in her own room. She is now a year and a half old, and goes to bed in her own room between 7-8 every night for over 6 months, leaving us with ample alone time every night. Not to mention, many opportunities on the weekend during the day, when she naps for a couple of hours twice a day. He shows no interest and turns down my advances, but agrees I should get pregnant again soon to have our second (and final) child since I'm getting to an age where me and baby are at a higher risk due to "advanced maternal age." Also, I am only about 5 pounds heavier than I was before having the baby and I really lucked out about not getting any stretch marks, so he doesn't have that excuse either.
My husband leaves in a couple of weeks for a 6 month work training, and there will be opportunities for us to come visit while he is there. But I think I'm at my final straw with all of this. I'm going to tell him to take these 6 months to evaluate our marriage and figure out if I am really what he wants out of this life. I need him to reflect on our intimacy and either fess up to what is going on or I think I am done. Is this unreasonable? I have given this man 10 years of my life and my self esteem has never been so low, honestly I feel like a idiot sometimes for sticking around this long. Am I missing something that seems obvious to anyone else?
Sorry this is so long, but thanks for reading my post! I'm hoping to find some support and guidance amongst you all.
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week5of35years
Junior Member
Think I may be out of a SM... @the Talk in Nov '23 and progressing well so far....
Posts: 90
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by week5of35years on Jan 18, 2024 4:18:25 GMT -5
Hi there l0nelylady Welcome to the forum. Your post resonated with me because in reading it I did wonder if you have been specific enough in outlining your needs to your husband for him to reflect on and decide about. When I joined miestas kindly posted the two links below which were "gold" for me The first is a structure to help you think about what you want, how to say it and how to be clear about it.... I found I had not been clear with my W in previous conversations, and had to have a do-over about What I wanted, How often, When it had to happen by, and what would happen if it just did not work out... (BTW for me it was PIV sex 2 times per week, to get into that regular sex routine by the end of 4mths or we ended up as "room mates" followed by divorce when our boy hits 18, so called "college plan") I made it clear so I could track progress (from Oct '23) and we are doing ok so far link - in case it doesn't work..... iliasm.org/thread/5780/build-own-talk The second link is from a reddit sub which I would recommend you reading even if you need to create a throwaway account... it looks at what the other half may use as a defence or throw back in your face ("thats all you think about" is a classic) and how you might respond or think about their responses/attempts to divert/dodge/deflect link - in case it doesn't work..... redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=6484335&u=https%3A//www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/6iyvq8/the_llitany_somewhat_of_a_repost_a_playbook_for/ I hope you find these links useful and find the support you need here... I was 35 years in when I finally found this resource, hope your time in jail or before its fixed is a lot less!
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 18, 2024 7:11:46 GMT -5
Hi, and thanks for the recent posts about my introduction. As far as questions, no we are not married, thankfully. We did, about 8 years ago, see a counselor, but it turns out the counselor had her own problems (seriously) and kind of vanished. My partner's other effort at counseling/therapy seems to have turned into an effort to find other blame-worthy excuses for her behavior, including her utterly narcissistic mother, etc, and therefore she never actually addressed her own issues. She is very much on the D.A.R.V.O. spectrum- all I can say is that I hope you don't know what I'm talking about in that regard. Again, this is behavior I had never experienced before, and had honestly never imagined could be possible - who would?
I have always understood (in my own naïve way) that once you're an adult, especially over 30 years old, you are responsible for what you say and do, period. That does not resonate with her. And yes, I went to a therapist myself as well, an older woman with an impressive career history as a therapist with a very comprehensive background. She was skeptical, which is what I hoped for, because she asked me a lot of tough questions that required introspection and honesty. Maybe I was more of a problem than I thought? Anyway, after quite a few sessions, my therapist said "she has shown you who she is, now you have to decide how you are going to deal with your situation." And I've kept my nose to the grindstone, but I am obviously a fool.
Well, that's enough for now, thanks to everyone.
Congrats on not having hitched yourself to a celibate wife. Maybe she's a suitable lifetime partner/roommate. A good way to find out is to see how she reacts to your prospective wives/lovers. If she refuses to tolerate a lover for you, your celibacy is the cost of her companionship and your misery is the cost of her friendship; at which point, what "friend" has such a demand? Much less can expect you to provide it. "Hey, dude, wanna get a beer and throw some darts? Oh, but first...you didn't get laid since we hit the gym Saturday, did ya?"
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 18, 2024 9:44:25 GMT -5
anita12345,....I think it goes without saying that when we married none of us thought we would be on or needing a forum like this. But here we are. It reads like you are in the "staying" camp for now. I would recommend reading in that category to perhaps gain some pointers for dealing with possible resentment that may be building. Or for how to approach having a "talk" with your spouse and perhaps setting down some boundries and/or conditions if the marriage is to continue. Experience here has shown that more often than not, if you want things to change regarding the poor state of intimacy in the marriage, then there must be a credable threat of serious consequences if they don't. The refusing spouse should be offered the choice of seeking medical treatment, or counselling for their problem. Refusal to do so will have the consequence of you seeking sex outside the marriage or possibly seperating and divorcing if all else fails. If you have been reading here much you know there are 3 choices in a SM. !) Stay and accept things. 2) Stay and outsourse, with or without their knowledge or consent and 3) Seperate and possibly divorce. While none of these is ideal , unfortunately they are the choices you have. This is not a site to search for a diagnosis for your h's condition. If you provide more information perhaps some mambers can advise you on possible resourses for addressing your situation. I would advise at this point that he needs to have his hormones checked. His testosterone may be really low, or he may have a thyroid issue or some other mediocal issue. Elimanite any possible medical conditions first. Proceed from a position of having as much knowledge as possible.
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Missingout
Full Member
Posts: 200
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on Jan 18, 2024 12:47:52 GMT -5
Hello Everyone l never in my life imagined I’d be on this forum. I’ll begin by saying everything else in our relationship is fine. He’s an amazing, hard-working loving man. A wonderful best friend. He is Not into PDA, but no one is perfect…but sometimes when we are out in public I feel like we are friends. I get jealous when I see a man squeeze his wife’s but or grab her in public. Previous to my current circumstances I’ve never had an issue with other men rejecting me. I am considered by my peers and friends to be attractive and personable. I’m a successful person. We met online 5 years ago and at first the sex was HOT. I am very sad to say I am now in a sexless relationship which began a few months into dating, and got worse after we moved in together. The average frequency is about once every three or four months, and always because I initiated and threw a tantrum. having sex while feeling like he is obligated makes me feel unattractive and undesirable. I love to be submissive, so having to be the pursuer ruins my experience. Otherwise we only kiss and hug and that’s it. I do know he’s had some childhood sexual trauma and he’s open about it, but curiously, that never stopped his desire when we first met. He used to be in therapy but they put him on several different concoctions of SSRIs, which I think added to the problem, so he stopped going and stopped taking meds. The infrequent sex is robotic and not pleasurable, which is in stark contrast to how hard things were when we first met. when it is good, I make sure to remind him to keep the momentum and ge agrees but to no avail. I have confronted him politely and suggested counseling which he says we do not need. He says “ I’ll fix it” but no actions are taken. Most if the time if I bring it up we end up arguing and I’m accused of having a one-track mind. He claims to have ED but I know it gets hard, and there are remedies he won’t take. I explained I’m open to ANYTHING no intercourse needed, I’ve purchased toys, lingerie send him sexts all the time, you name it. I’ve suspected infidelity or that maybe he’s got theMadonna/ whore syndrome a No proof yet of infidelity. I am so desperate for flirty passion with him because right now, the vibe feels like he’s my gay best friend. I know he’s into woman, but am unsure what the deal is. I just don’t get it! I’m here for knowledge and support. I don’t want to stray on him and I have told him how frustrated i am. I have needs and other men are constantly hitting on me, which reassures me, but I want the attention from him. I am here for any advice and insight. thank you Welcome and hope you have time to stay and read up on all the threads hear. There are amazing women on this site that will give you there input. I am still amazed that there are men out there that aren't interested in sex with there wife. Especially with all your tactics to persuade him.. mind blowing. Best of luck
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Post by alotlefttogive on Jan 19, 2024 1:03:59 GMT -5
Hi, Anita12345, this is my first response to another (new) member here, and so I don't want to overstep my bounds. I do think what you have in mind makes sense, as far as using the next 6 months to determine how to proceed thereafter. Your husband clearly seems to have issues he can't or won't address, and I expect that he is feeling pretty miserable- he has to understand what the situation has become. However you might choose to work things, a 6 month separation (since that's what's going to happen anyway..?) is a good way for both of you to figure out what's next. Since he won't include you as a helper in resolving his own probably unpleasant self-awareness, let him be himself and let him know that the end result is ok, even if it isn't a storybook ending. If he understands that he is actually free to sort through his baggage, and you are free to arrange for a potentially different future, with no "fault" for anyone involved, it might help him gracefully back away.
I"m really sorry to learn about this, and I wish you the best. Thanks for your post-
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 19, 2024 7:17:40 GMT -5
anita 12345,....It is interesting reading your description of how the intimacy in your marriage is going away. First because it mirrors to some degree my own former marriage. Our frequent and hot sex gradually evaporated down to once quarterly for a year or so and then stopped altogether the last year of the union. Diminishing intimacy followed by chastity is often the pattern in a SM. It is likely that in the next year or at most 2 the intimacy will pretty much disappear, no matter how many talks you have or how much you try to impress upon him how important intimacy is to you. My X acknowledged her shortcomings following our talks, but she never really did anything about it. I hate to say it but you probably should not expect much movement on the part of your H. You have tried to change him with "talks" and suggestions as to conselling, to no avail. Numerous woman here have posted the same history in their relationships. The promise to "fix it" on the part of the refuser is dust in the wind. If he hasn't acknowledged he has a problem after a couple talks then he is unlikely to acknowledge it. Eventually resentment on the part of you both is likely to enter the picture.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 19, 2024 7:36:02 GMT -5
l0nelylady,...yours is a sad to say typical story here. So often poor sex before marriage is expected to do a turn around once marriage happens. Sadly, it is seldom the case. Your H sounds like he may have hormone issues. A man not wanting sex but once a week when in his 20's and now not being interested at all are markers of possible low testerone or other medical issues. Is he on medications for the PTSD? Anti depressants or other medications often knock a persons libido down. If he is on medications read up on them to see if loss of sexual desire is a side effect. Eliminate any potential medical issues first. Once you know they are not a factor then you can consider if staying is still your choice or if leaving is the better option. One thing for sure, DO NOT HAVE ANY MORE CHILDREN WITH THIS MAN AT THIS TIME. More children will not make things easier going forward.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 24, 2024 6:47:28 GMT -5
I think I missed the part where anita12345 said she was married. She might not be. BTW, to any guest/visitors/members, sexlessness is the problem here and being emotionally invested in a sexless partner is worth addressing, marriage or no, IMO. So if anyone's feeling judged "Why don't you just leave"? You can say the same to married people. Loss-aversion is real. If you are not yet hitched, Anita12345 (were Anitas1,12,123,1234 already taken? My goodness ILIASM is popular!), you say you're otherwise compatible with your housemate and that has an inherent value of its own. A partner to grow old with. Sexless marriages suck so much because its expected that you be celibate with your spouse if one of you decides to forsake all and leave out the word "others" from their vow. If you are not married maybe you want to consider the prospects of having an enduring friendship that may surpass the value of many miserable marriages sexless and sexful. You can remain available for both erotic relationships and marriage. The pressure is off you to put pressure on him. If you are married, oh well. worksforme2's suggestion of eliminating medical reasons is sound, but his saying we don't find causes here may be alluding to the wisdom of some elder members here who ask whether knowing a reason for sexlessness helps. Too commonly it doesn't. You have the same problem with the same three answers worksforme2 listed. Looking for possible reasons is called "Why chasing" around here and should largely only be pursued with a mindset of idle curiosity with the answer being of mild interest but no critical value. With that in mind, I'd wonder whether your former lover has sexual eccentricities he is not willing to share but he indulges through consumption of porn related to the fetish. When you were new, the hormonal cocktail that fed both of you was either sufficient in itself, or he supplemented his biological lust with fantasies about that fetish without telling you. Victims of childhood abuse can fetishize aspects of the molestation and they find such fixation repugnant, shameful, and vexingly cannot rid themselves of it and may see that ironclad fixation as a personal failing/weakness. This is a lovely bit of cruelty layered on top of a blameless situation. But that doesn't help you and you didn't cause the problem it isn't your responsibility to solve. Help if you like, but don't hurt yourself in the process, and consider looking into finding a helper for your live-in partner (boyfriend or husband). He's not enough. Maybe he can be or will be, but he isn't now and his actions demonstrate no right to expect further abstinence from you. You're looking for some adult companionship and, for whatever reason that you're not allowed to assist with, he is choosing not to be that person. Wish as you might, he's not going to fill that role unless your finding someone else for that role is so abhorrent that it spurs him to action. Every woman here at ILIASM that has fixed their sexless relationship did it through credible discussion of seeking out a lover. Two "fixed" the relationship. The third took a lover and stayed married. I have heard of no other method working. You may be he first, but the attempts have been lengthy and the planning for outsourcing as the remedy yielded results fairly quickly in every case as well as providing psychological relief to the refused partner/spouse. When you can take action to solve your problem. the problem is no longer permanent and that reaps mental dividends. The third lady, jerri , approached the problem with the level of blameless loving sympathy alotlefttogive seems to suggest. You're there to help, but you'll need to start helping yourself too and you'll need some guidance as to what he needs if he wants you to make him part of the erotic component of your life. m76 mentions "The Talk". Some choices of wording and options to progress can be found here: iliasm.org/thread/5780/build-own-talk
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jan 24, 2024 10:21:16 GMT -5
Late to this... welcome to the club anita12345 and l0nelylady. If you are looking for some support and tough love, you are in the right place. Lots of experience here without the melodrama. Have a look around and read up. Most people start by checking in the "view recent threads" and "view recent posts". But there are several other folders/discussion groups in the archives that might be of interest. When you are ready, it might be easier to copy your story into your own thread for easier commenting and discussion Feel free to ask if you have any questions. Enjoy!
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