Men vs. Women with the Four Needs

This article was very similar it talked about "making bids" www.iliasm.org/thread/4111/breakdown-kindness-gottman-institute

I think the point needs to again be made that in this group we are not talking about your "average" jaded marriage that has hit a rough spot.
Such jaded marriages are quite often fixable, and there is a plethora of information on the net and elsewhere concerning how this might be achieved.
Good advice, eminently suitable to a jaded marriage.

This ILIASM group is a horse of an entirely different colour.
What filters down here are marriages where all sorts of methods - appropriate to jaded marriages - have already been trialled and failed.

These are NOT jaded marriages.
They are full blown ILIASM shitholes that have reached a stage of such dysfunctionality that there is not even basic marital sex happening.
Think on that ...... there is not even basic marital sex happening..... let alone the other negative aspects seen in marriages that present themselves here.

This is the elephant graveyard of dysfunctional marriages.
They've gone waaaay past "jaded".

That is not to denigrate the linked article in any way.
The thoughts outlined in it may well work a treat in addressing a "normal" slightly dysfunctional marriage.
But that is not the demographic here.
This is the arse end of the dysfunctional marriage spectrum.
Pretty much impervious to "normal" treatments.

I suspect the guests have there head buried in the sand and don't want to admit how bad thier marriage is.

Thank you for posting this article. It is very interesting and I may take time to do the emotional needs questionnaire that is there for my own information. I think that often the emotional needs of the spouses don't line up accurately, just as the author wrote. And, even if they do, the spouses don't find the same ways of meeting them. In fact, if they did meet up when they married, the means of meeting needs and perceptions of what's most important drift over time.

When I got to the end of the article and saw the part about affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation, and recreational companionship, and saw you mentioned me in your post, I thought about those in light of my marriage. I'll try to shed some light about how my wife is approaching life in general and how our sex life is functioning right now. I'll try to answer each one briefly.

For several years, there wasn't much affection. As she went through menopause, that dried up and she didn't want me to hug or touch her a lot. She didn't like kissing. From the start of our marriage, she wasn't a very engaged kisser and not very good at it. Right now, she is enjoying it more and is liking me touching her more and is also touching me back. For example in bed this morning, she reached out and touched my shoulder and arm. That was not happening at all. Another example is that she and I kissed deeply and she really tried to do it well when I washed her in the shower a couple weeks back. Since she has been on additional medications, it seems she is trying and enjoying too. A plus as of late and it would be a joy for me to have more affection from her continuing.

Conversation with my wife is very one sided. She is a terrible listener. Even when we went to therapy together, she couldn't listen in that situation where she was being kindly and gently guided to do so. She is very distractable and will even jump off topic when she's talking, which I almost laughed out loud about yesterday. She likes to talk a lot and fortunately I am a good listener. Telling her that I have no one to talk with and that she doesn't listen was poison to our relationship. I regret having admitted that to her. I just realize that is not a capacity she developed in her life and is likely not to now after observing her in conversations with her best friends. She's the same with them. Sigh.

Recreational companionship is fine with her if we do what she wants. We just got back from a Florida vacation that she says was the best vacation of her life. I enjoyed, too, but it was nothing of my choice of where to go and what to do. Last summer, I needed to go visit family and asked her to vacation with me. She refused, flat out, and while I was gone bought a new boat to show her independence and to demonstrate to me what she wants. After, she picked on me for wasting money on the travel I did. Rather a low point. So, I would say that at this point I am getting recreational companionship only if I go with her to do what she wants. I'd prefer otherwise and when I go with her the expense of time and money to me leaves with nothing left to travel or recreate locally on my own. Oh well.

Sexual fulfillment has been very low but I am thinking that her medicine changes, especially the estrogen cream for her woman parts are helping. We have had some kind of sexual relations for 4 weeks running now. Only once a week, but it's as much sex as we had for the previous 10 months. The author of the article wrote about overcoming pain and the meds are helping her with that, thank God. She's been more active in bed and tried to make me feel good, including an effort to give oral sex well. That was a big change and I am glad for it.

I am thinking my marriage is missing a lot in the 4 areas. I guess giving is the way to get more? Talk doesn't help with her. Sorry this is so long.

We could speculate endlessly about "guests", their motivations, the quality of their marriages et al.
But we can't "know" until such time as they say something - and even then we only usually get one side of the story - and invariably it is a pretty sad old tale, if they ever tell it.

I hope you are correct in your point that it may serve as a warning to people who's marriage have not yet reached ILIASM shithole status.

I have a sneaking suspicion that many guests in ILIASM shitholes read avidly in here and take on board suggestions that make sense to them without ever feeling a need to write about it.
I can't "prove it" though. It's just speculation on my part.