Post by mirrororchid on Sept 2, 2020 19:49:01 GMT -5
There may be a more suitable way/place to do this, and if so I can delete this and move elsewhere. Holler.
This thread is a journal of my nigh, formerly-SM and it's progress or setbacks.
This first post is a recap from the Introduce Yourself Page to start off. It may provide a bit of POV to my comments up and down the forums.
In December 2015, sex seemed conspicuously infrequent when I decided to gather empirical evidence so my complaints could not be taken as a matter of me whining subjectively.
I starting recording our sessions on a calendar, marking each day as to which of us climaxed: I, she, both, or neither.
2016 and 2017 graced us with four sessions each.
2018 saw a substantial uptick with five.
2019 set the sheets ablaze at nine! (more on that later)
In February 2017, I explained that I'd been unhappy with the dearth of sexual activity and that it wouldn't continue. I was not going to remain celibate. She told me it was a problem we would have to work on together.
Well.....
She was scared by side effects of hormonal creams offered by her doctor and she refused a lubricant syringe I found to help with her dryness (she's post menopausal). She didn't go to the doctor for any other suggestions.
So....
In 2018, I hit Tinder, Coffee and Bagel, Bumble, and OKcupid and sought out polyamourous, married women to date, explaining that I'd not be hiding our activities from my wife and she shouldn't from her husband.
OKcupid was my runaway favorite in short order because you could specifically require your picks to be married. You could also specify that your picks not just accept married men, but prefer them. It was a useful thing because I had no interest in leaving my wife so adding the romantic fantasy roadblock of a husband to a woman thinking of "stealing" me away had great appeal.
On dating web sites, I read dismal reports about lack of results on dating sites. Hints towards improving one's chances coincided with my strategies anyway. (e.g. Actually READ their profile, make an insightful comment on something special she took the trouble to tell you about. You know. Sneaky stuff like that.)
In short order (less than a month?), having contacted maybe six women, I had my first date from OKC (the dating sites seem to say that 16% response rate for a beginner is high. YMMV.)
Uncomfortable questions had me admitting my plans to my grown daughter. (20 years of age at the time). She wasn't hugely surprised, as my wife is clinically depressed which made her grumpy and tired most of the time. It's pretty common for clinically depressed people to have rock-bottom libidos.
(important, necessary medicine being a possible contributor to low libido (LL)
Anywho (sic), I went on the date and shortly thereafter the Mrs. found out and I spent no time denying it. I explained that it didn't make much sense to tell her about my dating if I wasn't in demand. If I couldn't get any, what was the point of fantasizing about an open marriage?
The first date had been something of a looker. I'd say she was a 7 at least.
There was no second date but we had a very nice goodbye exchange. My guess is she had lots of gents to choose from.
Within the month, maybe after messaging three more women, I landed date two. Kathy was a spunky, luckless, heavyset lady who got lots of interest, but from a lot of flakes - jealous girlfriends, unexplained ghosting. Just sad.
We weren't terribly well matched, but in as much as physical interaction was key for us both, being well matched might be a bad thing. We were both married, but devoted to our spouses.
A more solid match might get us thinking stupid ideas of simultaneous "upgrade", given NRE (New Relationship Energy) tendencies to make you not think clearly.
Then, I effed up.
I did a pretty lousy job on my wife's birthday. In my quest for sex, I neglected her emotionally.
I suspended all the dating accounts and logged special occasions and holidays in my online calendar so I'd warn myself of them well in advance and did a pretty good job making Christmas, Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, our anniversary, and her next birthday pretty nice. When we'd have sex, I'd get her flowers that week. (Never actually saying why. She hasn't made the connection yet, or at least, she hasn't said so.)
My wife asked if I'd intended to start dating again and I told her yes; in January.
Can you guess what happened next?
Sure you can.
We made love six times in the next two months, surpassing an entire year's performance for the previous three years. We nearly broke the four year losing streak having nine encounters in 2019 because of this reset in December.
Then, in February, we went without for a month. To be fair, we were out of town for almost a week, separately, and I nursed a cold for a week and a half, so that month was excusable.
Most recently was a three week hiatus.
I'd contacted Kathy 17 days into the dry spell and we've pledged to see each other after the coronavirus outbreak allows people to mingle again.
If my wife stays steady the way she has, I'll platonically date Kathy a few times to go on photo shoots with her to spruce up her dating profile (which is dull and lifeless).
We know about "resets", though, don't we?
Question is... what constitutes a reset?
How long does a dry spell have to go before you call it a dry spell?
Thing is, I intend to go on these dates after two weeks of dry dock.
I don't intend to share my scheduling with my wife. As the refuser, it's her job to pay attention and watch her calendar a little and ask herself if she's being unreasonable.
Life updates to follow. Perhaps as addenda to this post and cheers and jeers may follow this post instead of updates. That may be better to keep things cohesive.
4/16/20
The "reset" is pretty good. We're technically not in a sexless marriage anymore. My wife and I coupled again on the 7th. My calendar says the previous tryst was March 21st, for a 17 day spread. Half what I suggested last year, but she initiates each time. Apocrypha speaks often about how inferior sex is when you know the other person isn't actually into it. Conversely, it is a more gratifying experience knowing your partner wanted to share closeness enough to suggest it, even if the concern of my initiating dating may be a background motivator. If it is an important motive, the reset should lose steam. If it isn't, perhaps closeness will develop its own appeal, beyond what it may have now. As time wears on, the thought of my dabbling outside may fade for us both. It's early yet.
5/4/20
Last Sunday morning. 19 days. Three weeks seems to be when she engages.
It was an unusually sweet encounter. For the next two nights before rolling over to sleep I kissed her like a college kid.
'Oh, cripes,' I thought, 'I'm in love.'
I had those insane, giddy feelings of everything being right with the world. Relentless passion that stopped for fear of annoying her, not due to loss of desire or fatigue.
Didn't know that kind of drunk insanity could come back.
I told her how I felt just then, recognizing that it was primitive biology triggering actual emotional states.
Didn't stop myself. Took the chance.
That's how out of my mind I was.
Five days later, I don't regret it. Five weeks from now? Maybe I'll be thinking what some of you are right now.
6/2/20
May 9th. Just 13 days this time. Startled that she invited me to couple. B-b-b-but...it's only two weeks this time!
And it was a really good session. I think she was thinking we could get to the point where she'll be fully engaged / capable. Her presence is really good. She's all I need when she's like this.
Then May 23rd, she falls over some junk she can't muster the energy to clean up and smashes her knee. Wrapping legs around me is a non-starter and I know better than to ask. Pain = sex is already an equation I don't like occurring to her. Why'd you wait, Love? Now we have a week while your knee heals.
I've hit the three week limit I'd set for myself, but a legit temporary excuse is softening that hard line.
BANG! COVID. My daughter's boyfriend tests positive. My wife's risk factors mean not even sharing a bed for two weeks. It'll be over five weeks this time.
Legit excuse.
Again, why'd ya wait, Honey?
It'll be at least five weeks between sessions this time. Is her body going to lose the progress it had made in terms of acclimating to being sexual again? It's not just me blowing smoke: www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/sex-use-it-or-lose-it
Maybe her therapist clued her in on this.
Is this the end of the reset? Or an unwelcome recess that will frustrate her as well? Will she notice? If I don't update by Independence Day, that may be your answer.
6/18/20
Well, this is getting tedious to read, maybe?
6/10/20. Healed up from her fall and not enjoying alone time in bed, the wife brought me back from COVID exile and she initiated very soon after.
A bit over one month this time even with two snafus interfering. I'd really expect the excuses to start if this reset wasn't a true turnaround for her.
If we go SM again, I'm thinking it'll be a new dry season, not the same one, interrupted.
All this being said, I think I'm going to report back far less often. Maybe if we go the three weeks and I take Kathy on the photo shoot. (with the main goal being helping Kathy get some alternative companionship since the Mrs. has done very well making me feel cared for. Unreasonable jealousy being a possible tool to refocus on the necessity of intimacy.)
My next post will have to be something more than just good news. Unless people like to hear the flip side of SM. I'm not looking to put salt in wounds. I'm currently of the mind that this current turnaround was all her doing with her therapist and I can take precious little credit. Turnarounds remain difficult for the refused to put in motion without an adjunct component.
Good news! (kind of) I can post again!
We're seeing some backsliding.
It took five weeks in between, this time.
To be fair, one week was vacation with my mother and sister.
Two more weeks because it was in South Carolina which was declared a hot spot, so it was two weeks sleeping apart.
Still.... only one of us was champing at the bit after three weeks.
I initiated because she was wildly desirable to me. She relented and offered to "let you have your way with me."
It wasn't a fun teasing tone of voice either. Maybe she meant it to be funny, but I cheerfully declined so as not to hurt her feelings.
I've seen my wife engaged. I will not settle for her doing me favors again.
I think that was soon after week three, so it took two weeks for her to offer.
Well, big surprise, her body had lost momentum and while I was careful as hell not to hurt her, neither of us could finish the deal.
Question is, will she try again soon, or does she think that should hold me? That a near miss counts when part of the reason for missing is the LONG delays between sessions.
www.prevention.com/sex/g26133381/what-happens-vagina-when-stop-having-sex/
postmenopausal women have a higher chance of experiencing a more permanent loss of vaginal elasticity after a prolonged period without sex. That’s because their bodies produce less estrogen, which can lead to a loss of elasticity and lubrication in the vagina.“It’s really hard to get [the vagina] to stretch out again after menopause,” Dr. Zanotti says. In the case of postmenopausal women who are looking to maintain a certain level of vaginal elasticity, the phrase “use it or lose it” may apply.
I activated my OKcupid account the Thursday before the fifth weekend. (two weekends of post-COVID love opportunities ignored) and sent one message out.
Trying to land lunch dates, but the thought occurred maybe Kathy might find herself nearby someday for lunch. It'd be a shame not to offer.
So I'll make that call soon.
As the weather cools off, a COVID-safe outdoor lunch may be more tempting to potential dates.
She sees her therapist in a few weeks. Likely due to the family tragedy last year.
That I'm venturing into the dating world now would strike some as pretty scummy.
Bear in mind, I expect finding a FWB to take at least a month and that should be enough time to see if my wife's reset has truly petered out, or we just hit a small bump in the road.
9/3/20
What the? Is she lurking on ILIASM?
Right after that post, she offered this morning. Sincerely, I felt. She would have been hurt if I refused. (Maybe my refusing spooked her?)
It was awkward, but sweet.
The gesture was much appreciated.
Hm. Guess I'll mothball OKcupid again. (suspend the account)
That little bit of effort is all I ask. Just care a little.
10/6/20
Two perturbations to report.
Normally I would activate OK Cupid again and start seeking out companionship for platonic dates in case this two week spell turns into three or more, but we're coming up on the anniversary of a soul crushing family tragedy. Expecting her to muster a "mood" this time of year is absurd. Thinking of inviting Kathy to lunch with clear parameters in place with the expectation that I may have a month and a half dry spell before I'll let myself be a thoughtless scumbag and share intimate time with a date. If I knew it'd be three months, that'd be one thing but these emotional triggers can shoot a partner's libido clean through. My wife was capable of well over that three months I mentioned and minus the sword of Damocles of dating, she'd not been motivated to live married life in all its inconvenience before that.
The other report is that over the past month or so, my wife has initiated some serious liplock. Twice in bed, once out the door. What an odd thing to think something so central to a romantic relationship should be something so rare. The therapist's doing again? Three times a month isn't much and about a twentieth of my gestures towards her. More of that unrequited one-sided nonsense. But three in a month? A twentieth of my passion for her? This is a mountain of reciprocation by comparison. Apocrypha said that his open marriage brought him to judge his listless marriage more harshly. It would seem even a semi-revived marriage might have a similar effect? Quite the harbinger, my friend.
10/15/20
Mrs. MirrorOrchid and I engaged Sunday morning but despite taking precautions, dryness/pain interrupted us.
She suggested I continue. I countered we could try Wednesday. I would take no measures to reduce my ardor until then so it should be quick and easy.
Wednesday, luckily enough, I was awake early enough to fit our session in (I hadn't thought about the time constraint. We rarely engage before work), It began well enough, and...I couldn't finish. After four days, I couldn't complete the deal. The attempt was marvelous, and she urged me to continue, but I wasn't sure it was going to happen despite a good ten to fifteen minutes of blissful sensual interaction. (recall that more is not better when struggling with moisture, I'm not a minuteman) I've had this issue maybe four times in 25 years, but boy howdy was this timing bad. I may be psyching myself out needing to go faster for her sake and being very aware of the pain I'll cause her if I let myself get lost in the moment.
Fluke? Or the new normal?
11/16/20
Fluke. No issues.
Three times since last report, all of them good for both.
Missed birthday sex, even though I'd specifically hinted.
She got me the next morning. Nice ambush, babe.
I mark the one year anniversary of the reset in ten days.
How long can a reset be before you call it a "fix"? (Knowing full well fixed marriages can break again.)
12/7/20
Coming up on a month without.
But.... I got COVID 11/16, self-isolated 11/17.
Left the house after a positive COVID test 11/20.
Came back on day 14, 11/30, in time for wife's birthday, but she came down with something 11/28.
12/1 wife can't get out of bed. 12/3 Positive for COVID. 12/7, still recovering.
I've said I give myself permission to platonically date at the three week mark. I think I need to be a bit flexible on that. COVID changes things, doesn't it?
12/24/20
Wife felt okay by 12/10. Allowed three days to get accustomed to being "normal" (12/13) and started the clock.
Last week has been my spooning her, stroking her stomach and thigh a few times, getting zero response then I respectfully roll over having expressed my physical attraction to her.
A week straight of her face in her phone? Not a good sign.
Kisses goodbye in the morning have not been pecks, but there's been no intimate connection in them either. Comfortable couple kisses.
Hey, they're nice enough. They're also a red flag.
Five days passed between our last coupling and my contracting COVID. I'm counting those. Many couples manage to fit a tryst into that. Some of em get two. (e.g. greatcoastal , from what I hear)
16 days later is the time to call Kathy for platonic lunch. That's 12/29.
I'm calling Monday to schedule, unless I unwrap an unexpected Christmas gift.
Sexless marriages are ten times a year or fewer. (Other definitions say 9 or fewer, but 10 would constitute really really low sex marriage which need not be deemed acceptable.)
On average, that means sex every 37 days.
So platonic dating at three weeks. Sex-eligible 16 days later.
Or, someday, drop all the little rules I make for myself and get real with Mrs. Mirrororchid.
Credit where due, a year long reset is a pretty good run. Thanks, babe.
12/30/20
A semi-rushed, awkward coupling Christmas morning. Appreciated the effort. We were badly out of practice.
I think this was her noticing the long hiatus and knowing it was dangerous not to get back on the horse.
She seemed to be doing this with a mission in mind. Not a chore, but a necessity.
Decay into starfish sex? Or a smart move that resumes normal married life?
Could go either way.
1/18/21
Improved encounter with the wife Jan 3.
Two weekends come and gone. I'll initiate Saturday. It's been a while since I've needed to ask and going on a date without a warning shot at this point would be unappreciative of the enormous strides she took to meet me halfway. (more like 80% of the way). She's been intensely affectionate, just shy of an invitation. Maybe she's looking to feel explicitly wanted. Sure, I can do that.
3/22/21
Didn't have to initiate. She's like clockwork, bless her.
We both had the day off to take our dogs to the dentist.
Walked around a horse track, looked at furniture, had a terrific breakfast at a diner we hadn't been to in ages.
I had initially suggested a different diner and she asked if that's where I'd taken my date back in August of 2018, and I admitted it was. She firmly said she never wanted to go.
The day had a tone to it as a result.
A bit of a sticky wicket. My wife said long ago that she'd divorce me if I had an affair. I wanted to date if she was going to make our marriage sexless.
Was platonic dating a reason to file paperwork?
If I couldn't find a new partner, what good was it to break up my marriage just checking to see if I had "game"?
It was my intent to tell her I was dating before physical relations began, but I was discovered and she reset hard, removing the desire to date, but she considers my secret dates cheating. Just looking for a new partner was enough to qualify for that ugly label.
Sure, chicken shit move on my part to make sure that sex was available before I endanger my sexless marriage and end up with not even that much going for me in my 50's.
If your sexless husband investigates getting a new lover and you're not thrilled with the sex four times a year you were offering, why not go to zero?
I own my insecurity. I found it possible I would end up alone. Didn't see the need to harpoon what I had for the sake of knowledge.
Had I told her up front I was going to date, would the results have been better?
If she'd known I was looking elsewhere, would she have reset? Or sulked, grown resentful, and caused a divorce.
If anyone has an alternate dimension viewer, I'd like to borrow it for a few minutes.
6/9/21
Still going. Never more than three weeks. My level of trust and security is higher than I thought possible.
Had a truly blissful session with her one morning not long ago. She had shuddering pleasure in a sublimely intimate way and I couldn't bear spoiling it with proper sex that makes her sore. I asked whether we could take care of me another time. She seemed concerned but allowed it.
After a delay where I think she was feeling guilty for the unilateral climax, we united again and both of us got some bliss, but it did involve sex so it does have a downside for her.
I'm going to print out jerri 's little handbook and suggest maybe we can try other things if she'd like to avoid PIV. PIV is uncomfortable so she's appreciative when I don't try to make it last. This detracts from the experience. Sensuality cannot be part of it and her discomfort is no fun on my end either. I feel selfish, but she doesn't want me going without, so...it's a bit of a vexing puzzle. Jerri's book may be key.
7/22/21
Rerun of 6/9 entry.
Couldn't bear the thought of spoiling the sweet bliss she got.
When I suggested doing me later, she said "It doesn't work that way, it could be a long time."
Three days.
Both of us.
Her reliability as a lover, the initial expectation of having someone there for you physically is getting restored and my ability to be generous to the point of risking deprivation is getting richly rewarded. I really like those sessions where it's all about her and there's no penalty. Kind of the opposite. Two session in pretty rapid succession when the first one is avoiding any downside for her. Next report may be one where I actually do end up waiting for two or three weeks (four to six, counting the weeks since the previous tryst). Happy news is getting tedious. I'm not bragging folks, just shocked.
12/8/21
Hiccup.
Tomorrow will be a month.
She's been unhappy at work, she had a medical issue, then she was upset I was unavailable for six hours for Christmas decorating (four hours isn't enough, apparently.)
The past two years have bought her a lot of goodwill, but I'm about to try that "communication" thing I've heard so much about. There have been some changes... I've been severing the co-dependence and largely allowing her to self-isolate and not making her clinical depression my job to fix. (I help whenever asked, but I'm no longer trying to motivate her.) I'm getting increasingly responsible for mealtimes, which is the bulk of her contribution to the household. Thrilled to pieces about that. I think I've never been closer to bachelorhood lifestyle than now. Switch your meds, babe. This can't possibly be fun.
Last night she initiated some 140 degree kisses. Not hot, but very warm, and an indication she's aware she's pushing her luck. I gave better'n I got to indicate I appreciated the gesture. Then we slept. Hadn't kissed goodnight for a week before that. Don't know if she realized that. Not sure if some was on purpose.
I'm really past the whole resentment / complaining thing. Kathy wanted to jump me. Likely still does. I'm not negotiating for table scraps.
12/24/21
Just three days later the dry spell broke. I'll be watching for "weaning", but this may have been a one-off. All the same, I dare say I was displeased with myself for my fear of bringing the subject up. I am a pretty bad advocate for myself. Mrs. Mirrororchid says the secrecy behind my platonic dating was a betrayal. I resolved to inform her of future dating, should I ever wish it, but when it came time to broach the subject I was very hesitant. My inaction worked well this time. I came across as patient and understanding, but if ever she grows accustomed to long dry spells, I'm going to need to firm my spine. It's like Jell-o right after you pour the boiling water and put it in the frig. It was barely hardening when my wife cut the celibacy short. I'm not going to enjoy the discussion if she ever gets a bad idea in her head. I'm occasionally composing "The Talk" in my head should this reset end. Going a month without was my shot across the bow, intentional or not.
1/11/22
Mrs. Mirrororchid has been dialing up the heat in our kissing. Figuring it might mean a temporary increase in sexual appetite I offered some attention with no expectation of reciprocation. "It doesn't work like that." she lamented. I chided her, "It's only been a week, it's perfectly okay if it's just you." Days later she climbs on top of me in bed feigning unfortunate necessity to use that route back to her side of the bed rather than walking around. and we kissed like teenagers. Nothing happened, but it didn't have to. Just a taste of "Oppositeland" I wanted to share. I called it "Reset plus" to myself. Playful intimacy. Haven't seen that in... good grief! When?
5/26/22
Blip.
We'd had three sessions with near misses for her. I started worrying that sex would become only for my sake. Last weekend the dam burst and teh losing streak broken.
You can't say anything. Performance pressure is bad enough for guys. Pressure is orgasm kryptonite for ladies, I'm told.
10/11/22
Married life. When I say like clockwork, it's suspiciously consistent.
Every third weekend. Those times when it's been two are gone. It almost never goes to four.
Every session is good, she's engaged and attentive. She's getting hers 80-90% of the time.
It just seems so... perfunctory. I'm pleased with it, mind you. It just seems like the kind of monotony that would eventually get on her nerves.
It may get on mine eventually. I may ask for a birthday present, mid-week, this year. Check to see if the methodically scheduled sex is a consciously constricted rut.
10/19/22
So, Mrs. MirrorOrchid starts singing along with Ashton Shepherd's "Look It Up"
Great little song about a woman having had it with her drunken, cheatin' man.
I got a vibe she was calling me out for my having had a date with a prospective mistress when we were coupling five times a year.
Real curious why she wants that discussion.
Is she thinking of scaling back from out 17 times per year? ...and signaling that I have to put up with whatever she's willing to provide?
Oh, we'll have that conversation.
11/1/22
Hmmm. Strange.
After a suspiciously regular pattern of sex every three weeks, she engages me in another romp two weekends in a row. I pleasured her and did not make moves to "take my turn". I'd like her to approach me for extra fun like that if she ever feels the desire without worrying it means grappling with her uncooperative body.
The ability to bring another bliss is intimacy I enjoy a great deal. If it doesn't extend the three week dry spell, bring it on. If it does, I'm wondering about asking why three weeks is so regular. Does she know that once a month is pathetic and would make me impatient with our staid relationship? Would she prefer to go back to four times a year? Would she like once a month, I do her only, no actual intercourse?
Basically, I'm contemplating asking her to ask herself if she's doing it in order to keep me away from other women and what are her fears? If sex is uncomfortable and both hand and blow jobs are even less welcome, is it beyond consideration to offload this "wifely duty"? Can you construct a scenario where our marriage is unthreatened, but you need not dread romantic time? Where you can even look forward to it because it'll be all about you?
Some projection going on here, perhaps. I dislike that sex is uncomfortable for her. My ordinary, healthy physical desires cause her displeasure. Can I love her without hurting her and accept bliss from someone who gets the same charge I do, without the ouchie part?
I totally come across as the selfish asshole here. Put up with post-menopausal pain, or I step out on you. Yeah, it's like that. I'm a horrible person.
Hurting her sucks, going without, forever, sucks too. This is what I got.
What about this instead?
Grind my wife to bliss, kiss and cuddle her. Breathe in the smell of her neck. Mid-week, meet a lover and intertwine with her deeply, kiss her hungrily, probably soak in her scent as well, and say goodbye wishing her husband well.
Bizarre fantasy or unkind reality. Is the former so very wrong?
11/3/22
Okay. So this is just unbelievably coincidental if my wife does not know about ILIASM.
Last night, a day after I wrote that last update, she offers me a "quickie".... at night!
The metronome-steady weekend morning only pattern, broken twice.
As if she's reading this thread. Like prayers being answered.
If you are reading this, hi babe! You're m'girl. Love you.
