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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 1, 2020 14:00:10 GMT -5
mirrororchid, (I'm sorry I can't get the quote function to work!) Paragraph starting... 'his willingness to provide for you now .... ' ending with .....' He needs to provide you with a way to win' Will you explain more what you mean please? Big girl pants etc? Do you mean I have to 'make' him want me by jumping on him? I can't do that! I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 2........ he didn't know I was trying blah blah 3.......... if I HAD jumped on him and made it beedin' obvious, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance. ? His answer to that was yes. Apparently that is what he 'needs' me to do so he is able to have sex without fears of failing. I CAN;T bloody do this. I didn't have to bloody do this on our friggin' 2nd honeymoon , I didn't have to do it many years ago when we were 'normal', and I bet his bloody girlfriend doesn't have to do this. I'm not the sort of person who can be someones personal porn actress just to get him interested- I do not and have NEVER had the sort of confidence that takes. (I don't mean I'm a 'star-fish' shag ; really, I'm not. I like giving oral, going on top, on all 4's...... OK I'm not going to be swinging from the chandeliers, but I'm not some dead lump of meat ; I'm fine once everything gets going ) ....and I don't think I need the sex THAT much, that I make myself feel soooo uncomfortable trying to get it. I wanted my husband to want me - I think I'm coming to the reality that that's not going to happen (sorry for all the shouting and swearing, but I'm howling my eyes out here)
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 1, 2020 18:14:22 GMT -5
gladifoundthisforum, this isn't in any way a defense of your husband's behavior, just some perspective from a guy who empathizes with the situation... Eventually, the negative feedback around sex and/or the constant failure causes a reconditioning: this person is not a viable sex partner, it's wrong to view her sexually; a familial love is OK, but an erotic attraction is perverse. This is, quite frankly, a defensive response to protect one's emotional sanity - "She can't reject me if I've disqualified her". To offer a personal example... quite literally, my wife could crawl into bed naked (completely out of character) and curl up to me, and that absolutely would NOT be a sign that touching her would be safe or that anything was on offer. And even if she did, the idea that "this is wrong and perverted" has become so ingrained that I couldn't perform even if I wanted to. A bunch of factors may be combining to put your husband in a similar bind with both the "green light" and arousal; performance for guys can be a lot more mental than popular belief gives credit. (And yes, this can absolutely be a huge issue in his dynamic with you while it isn't with his girlfriend; it's due to history.) Bottom line, depending on how far gone things are, you might need to be very direct until reconditioning the other way becomes natural to him. I don't mean walking into the room in a lacy nightie that you feel sexy in (which is still a good thing) - I mean, making very blunt "I want you; I'm in the mood for sex" statements. Eventually, he could start to correlate the two and realize more subtle clues are safe to pursue. I know this sounds very much like "scented candles and lingerie" approach that we're critical of here, but it's not. It's about re-wiring a perspective that's become established over years. (It also ignores his porn and girlfriend, which are certainly issues, but being addressed by other replies.)
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Post by snowman12345 on Dec 1, 2020 18:51:21 GMT -5
My 2 cents as a man in a SM to date for around 8 or 9 years and has been seeing a FWB for about 7 of those years: having an affair partner is definitely not for everyone. It takes a lot of maneuvering to carry on (so to speak). If this is the route you want to go it is doable. I suggest you give it a lot of thought and then think about it some more. Having a willing sex partner is an amazing blessing for anyone. To give that up for porn is IMHO foolish. To give that up for porn and an AP is beyond stupid. Yup I am an asshole, and an old, cranky one at that - so I will make judgements based on my world view. You deserve better - go out and find it. Good luck and I hope you find peace.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 2, 2020 7:42:13 GMT -5
Thank you drycreek and snowman xx I'm going to look into getting some therapy; It's becoming obvious I'm in a bit of a mess
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 3, 2020 6:38:15 GMT -5
mirrororchid, (I'm sorry I can't get the quote function to work!) Paragraph starting... 'his willingness to provide for you now .... ' ending with .....' He needs to provide you with a way to win'Will you explain more what you mean please? Big girl pants etc? Do you mean I have to 'make' him want me by jumping on him? I can't do that! I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 2........ he didn't know I was trying blah blah 3.......... if I HAD jumped on him and made it beedin' obvious, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance. ? His answer to that was "Yes". Apparently that is what he 'needs' me to do so he is able to have sex without fear of failing. I CAN'T bloody do this.... I'm not the sort of person who can be someone's personal porn actress just to get him interested- I do not and have NEVER had the sort of confidence that takes. ... I don't think I need the sex THAT much, that I make myself feel soooo uncomfortable trying to get it. I wanted my husband to want me - I think I'm coming to the reality that that's not going to happen (sorry for all the shouting and swearing, but I'm howling my eyes out here) Writing hint:
To reply to another message, Click "Quote" Immediately, click below the box filled with the quoted text and hit return four or five times. When you alter quoted text first, it sometimes becomes impossible to click below the quote box. CAVEAT:
I'm anonymous and I'm an internet commenter. These are two good signs that everything read from here on out should be considered carefully for that which does not apply to your specific situation. They are offers, not commands and barely suggestions. It'd pain me to lead you astray with guesses mistaken for infallible wisdom. Those out of the way, I'll be glad to clarify. I gather that you'd rather do the dance of flirtation. Hints, innuendo, gestures of touch... but he's looking for blunt . "Big boy/girl pants" typically means doing without one's preferred vision of how the world works. Most folks can enjoy the artful dance of adult seduction. You've been shortchanged; thus the need to abandon (at least temporarily) the desire to engage in this fun buildup process. You've said you'd feel like a porn actress to initiate without subtlety. I would hope it would be sufficient to roll over in bed and play with his chest hair, kiss him and drape your fingers south. If he attempts to demur, you can stop and say, "This is what you said you wanted. I'm doing my part. Did you mean what you said?" This is a sexy, zesty wife move. I don't watch porn, but that move strikes me as rated R, not X. (does that ratings system apply in the UK?) You are then giving him what he says he needs from you. That means it strikes me as fair that when you execute a full-on, tasteful, erotic attack like that, he needs to receive it and respond with physical intimacy. Your compromise needs to have a payoff. Failing that, it's not reasonable for you to continue. You need to have a chance for your overtures to succeed and get your ordinary marital desires fulfilled. You may be willing to entertain a "rain check", but then he is obligated to attack you (in a nice way) before you can be expected to initiate again. If he'd like to truly reciprocate completely, he could make an attempt to flirt and respond positively when you pick up on the hints. You attack him his way, he attacks you with yours. If he rejects you, he needs to signal a willingness to get your needs met soon after. Preferably he should be acknowledging his disappointing you. "Oops, sorry hon, I wouldn't, uh, be much fun right now. [ he just finished a round of "solitaire"] Okay if I wake you up tomorrow before work?" (and then follow through, stud.) He says this will work. If it doesn't, that's critical data for you to consider your next move and other suggestions for meeting your needs may be attempts to keep you celibate. (not on purpose, just the lousy consequence of kidding you and maybe himself) You've managed "eggshell" conversations. Seems like this is another one, with actions, not words. Maybe you'll be similarly pleased with your courage afterwards. Noting that without appropriate results, your efforts to meet HIS needs (straightforward sexual requests) need not continue and other suggestions will be met with increasing skepticism and perhaps, alternative remedies. PS "Bloody" isn't swearing on this side of the pond. I find it genteel. If only Americans substituted the F bomb with that sometimes, I think our society would improve some. PPS Therapy isn't just for people who are a mess. It's a good idea to engage in therapy so you don't become a mess. The earlier the intervention, the more objective one can be, I would think. Fixing a mental obstacle without an emotional reaction to that obstacle strikes me as easier. You seem at the end of your rope, but you haven't lost your grip. Just my impression. To some degree, you're doing therapy right now. Expressing your feelings, getting asked questions, explaining your feelings and positions, getting good and bad advice and mulling over which is which. A lot of overlap there, wouldn't you say? "Therapy" is such a charged word. It's just talking stuff out with a person who's done a LOT of it. So much so, they're paid for their time. Many folks here have talked through issues with many many visitors and their experience is not only lengthy but very targeted. A decent start, I'd like to think.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 3, 2020 10:10:08 GMT -5
mirrororchid, I think you're a very wise man And you're right on the 'therapy' thing; the experiences, advice and other points of view on here are SO good to have. During the last 24-36 hours after my last 'sweary' post, my head is clearing wonderfully well...... I'm going to stop panicking and try stuff out . Thanks guys. (I'll be back with any results when I have them!)
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Post by jerri on Dec 4, 2020 3:04:39 GMT -5
mirrororchid, (I'm sorry I can't get the quote function to work!) Paragraph starting... 'his willingness to provide for you now .... ' ending with .....' He needs to provide you with a way to win'Will you explain more what you mean please? Big girl pants etc? Do you mean I have to 'make' him want me by jumping on him? I can't do that! I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 2........ he didn't know I was trying blah blah 3.......... if I HAD jumped on him and made it beedin' obvious, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance. ? His answer to that was "Yes". Apparently that is what he 'needs' me to do so he is able to have sex without fear of failing. I CAN'T bloody do this.... I'm not the sort of person who can be someone's personal porn actress just to get him interested- I do not and have NEVER had the sort of confidence that takes. ... I don't think I need the sex THAT much, that I make myself feel soooo uncomfortable trying to get it. I wanted my husband to want me - I think I'm coming to the reality that that's not going to happen (sorry for all the shouting and swearing, but I'm howling my eyes out here) Writing hint:
To reply to another message, Click "Quote" Immediately, click below the box filled with the quoted text and hit return four or five times. When you alter quoted text first, it sometimes becomes impossible to click below the quote box. CAVEAT:
I'm anonymous and I'm an internet commenter. These are two good signs that everything read from here on out should be considered carefully for that which does not apply to your specific situation. They are offers, not commands and barely suggestions. It'd pain me to lead you astray with guesses mistaken for infallible wisdom. Those out of the way, I'll be glad to clarify. I gather that you'd rather do the dance of flirtation. Hints, innuendo, gestures of touch... but he's looking for blunt . "Big boy/girl pants" typically means doing without one's preferred vision of how the world works. Most folks can enjoy the artful dance of adult seduction. You've been shortchanged; thus the need to abandon (at least temporarily) the desire to engage in this fun buildup process. You've said you'd fell like a porn actress to initiate without subtlety. I would hope it would be sufficient to roll over in bed and play with his chest hair, kiss him and drape your fingers south. If he attempts to demur, you can stop and say, "This is what you said you wanted. I'm doing my part. Did you mean what you said?" This is a sexy, zesty wife move. I don't watch porn, but that move strikes me as rated R, not X. (does that ratings system apply in the UK?) You are then giving him what he says he needs from you. That means it strikes me as fair that when you execute a full-on, tasteful, erotic attack like that, he needs to receive it and respond with physical intimacy. Your compromise needs to have a payoff. Failing that, it's not reasonable for you to continue. You need to have a chance for your overtures to succeed and get your ordinary marital desires fulfilled. You may be willing to entertain a "rain check", but then he is obligated to attack you (in a nice way) before you can be expected to initiate again. If he'd like to truly reciprocate completely, he could make an attempt to flirt and respond positively when you pick up on the hints. You attack him his way, he attacks you with yours. If he rejects you, he needs to signal a willingness to get your needs met soon after. Preferably he should be acknowledging his disappointing you. "Oops, sorry hon, I wouldn't, uh, be much fun right now. [ he just finished a round of "solitaire"] Okay if I wake you up tomorrow before work?" (and then follow through, stud.) He says this will work. If it doesn't, that's critical data for you to consider your next move and other suggestions for meeting your needs may be attempts to keep you celibate. (not on purpose, just the lousy consequence of kidding you and maybe himself) You've managed "eggshell" conversations. Seems like this is another one, with actions, not words. Maybe you'll be similarly pleased with your courage afterwards. Noting that without appropriate results, your efforts to meet HIS needs (straightforward sexual requests) need not continue and other suggestions will be met with increasing skepticism and perhaps, alternative remedies. PS "Bloody" isn't swearing on this side of the pond. I find it genteel. If only Americans substituted the F bomb with that sometimes, I think our society would improve some. PPS Therapy isn't just for people who are a mess. It's a good idea to engage in therapy so you don't become a mess. The earlier the intervention, the more objective one can be, I would think. Fixing a mental obstacle without an emotional reaction to that obstacle strikes me as easier. You seem at the end of your rope, but you haven't lost your grip. Just my impression. To some degree, you're doing therapy right now. Expressing your feelings, getting asked questions, explaining your feelings and positions, getting good and bad advice and mulling over which is which. A lot of overlap there, wouldn't you say? "Therapy" is such a charged word. It's just talking stuff out with a person who's done a LOT of it. So much so, they're paid for their time. Many folks here have talked through issues with many many visitors and their experience is not only lengthy but very targeted. A decent start, I'd like to think. I like the idea of giving subtle cues that you feel comfortable with. He is giving you a roadmap. I don't know if it is conditional. The one thing that a therapist will ask you both is were you assertive and did you initiate. Do the give and take and tell him how he can make you feel better. I had asked so many times that I told my H to bring a gift and I would bring one too and I would lay it on his pillow. That was a sign that the night would have some intimacy. We both responded and l didn't have to thnk, am I going to be rejected tonight? I put his gift there and later his gift was there. Next week tell him to...
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 4, 2020 4:55:57 GMT -5
Thank you Jerri, the 'present on the pillow' thing is another idea to put into the armoury!
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Post by csl on Dec 4, 2020 11:27:31 GMT -5
Thank you Jerri, the 'present on the pillow' thing is another idea to put into the armoury! Basically, are we looking at the Forty Beads method, or a variation thereof?
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 4, 2020 11:40:58 GMT -5
Errr.... 40 beads, csl?
Never heard this one before.....
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Post by Handy on Dec 4, 2020 11:45:36 GMT -5
A long time ago I saw pillow covers with a cartoonish pear and a worm. There was a caption on one side of the pillow cover "Wan'a Pear up?"
I guess that is one way to suggest a sexual session.
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Post by csl on Dec 4, 2020 12:30:17 GMT -5
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Post by Handy on Dec 4, 2020 16:38:05 GMT -5
40 beads (Available NOW at Amazon.com), just more stuff to buy that might or might not to work. 1 Do you love your husband?
2 Do you want to stay married to him?
3 Do you have this sneaking suspicion that your relationship has the potential to be better than it is?
4 Do you ever experience any confusion, anger or stress associated with sex in your marriage?
5 Are you interested in making your relationship the best (happiest, most easeful, most fun) it can be?
6 Are you willing to incorporate changes in order to develop a better relationship?
7 Are you interested in making sex in your marriage something that you want to do instead of something you feel like you should do?
8 Do you find value in feeling emotionally connected to your husband?
1,2,3,5,6,7,8=no 4=yes
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Post by Handy on Dec 4, 2020 23:38:15 GMT -5
Padgemi, I was answering for me, not my W. For me it is a case of too little too late and I realize people don't change so why hope. I am the counter refuser even if my W wanted to to try something like "40 Beads."
Do I sound grumpy? It is OK if I do. I am doing things for me and not anyone else.
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Post by jerri on Dec 5, 2020 1:25:01 GMT -5
40 beads (Available NOW at Amazon.com), just more stuff to buy that might or might not to work. 1 Do you love your husband?
2 Do you want to stay married to him?
3 Do you have this sneaking suspicion that your relationship has the potential to be better than it is?
4 Do you ever experience any confusion, anger or stress associated with sex in your marriage?
5 Are you interested in making your relationship the best (happiest, most easeful, most fun) it can be?
6 Are you willing to incorporate changes in order to develop a better relationship?
7 Are you interested in making sex in your marriage something that you want to do instead of something you feel like you should do?
8 Do you find value in feeling emotionally connected to your husband?
1,2,3,5,6,7,8=no 4=yes
Yikes, Handy
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