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Post by northstarmom on Aug 2, 2021 15:34:03 GMT -5
One thing that is obvious from the article is that probably many asexuals don't know they are asexual because until recently, very little has been said or written about asexuality. "The ace spectrum includes people who avoid sex entirely, who are willing to have sex in relationships for the sake of their partners, or who enjoy it when they have it, even if they don’t feel sexually drawn to anyone. Some have strong romantic feelings, while others do not. What they share is a perspective that’s rarely heard in a culture saturated with sexual images and innuendo — a perspective, some say, that holds lessons for everyone. Angela Chen, author of Ace: What Asexuality Reveals About Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex (Beacon Press, 2020) says that asexuals like herself are pushing back against a culture of “compulsory sexuality,” where frequent, passionate sex is embraced as the ideal — and anything else is seen as suspect." www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/after-decades-of-invisibility-asexuals-are-speaking-up-and-gaining-ground-i-dont-need-to-be-fixed-because-im-not-broken/ar-AAMPMUm?ocid=sf |
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Post by Handy on Aug 2, 2021 15:58:38 GMT -5
I read the article. I still want to know if a person identifies as a "They" or "Them", are they male or female. Gender neutral is OK with me but most people expect interactions between people to have some gender differences.
Asexuals are OK. I would like to know early on in some cases.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 2, 2021 16:33:10 GMT -5
THe "they, them" folks have no gender. They don't identify as being male or female. No, I don't "get" it either, but I have friends who identify that way, and I go along with their wishes.
My guess is that just as many gays don't realize they are gay until middle age or even later, the same is true for many asexuals. I suspect my younger son is a gay asexual. He is handsome, intelligent, personable, has close friends -- male and female-- but has never been in any romance or --as far as I can tell -- involved in any sexual relationship. People's looks aren't important to him at all. He seems to care the most about character when it comes to choosing friends. I've never heard him comment on another person's looks. Indeed, he chides me if I do that.
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Post by Handy on Aug 2, 2021 17:25:33 GMT -5
THe "they, them" folks have no gender. I get that. My point was that I talk to people with a gender based bias, depending on what I think is their background. I will barely talk about clothes with women and to a lesser extent to men about clothing. I can do car talk with women but not as well with as men. This gender fluidity and asexual stuff is sort of new to me and that makes it difficult at times. Why? A lot of people expect to be treated or interacted with based on older social norms, but now the norms are less established. This makes for more mistakes and more uncertainty. OTH, if I cared less what a gender neutral thought I might be more comfortable.
When I talk with people I try to stay on a topic that they seem to understand at least a little. To me some topics are more for women and other topics are more for men. I am not saying any topic doesn't have an appeal to one gender but maybe there is a 52% vs 48% gender preference.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 2, 2021 17:39:16 GMT -5
Handy: "When I talk with people I try to stay on a topic that they seem to understand at least a little. To me some topics are more for women and other topics are more for men. "
Handy, you are showing your age. People now tend to have interests that aren't as confined to their genders as existed 50-70 years ago. While I am not interested in sports, I have women friends who are very interested. What I tend to ask people about is their interests and hobbies and then I proceed based on their answers. Usually people are delighted to talk about their interests. Another interesting conversation topic is favorite books, movies, plays or shows. I don't make assumptions, however, based on gender. It has been years since I've felt that some topics were for women, some for men, unless the conversation is about diseases specific to one gender, and I don't like conversations about illnesses anyway. Though, I'm 70, if you're much older and hang around mainly with people your age then their interests may be more gender specific. I sure know, though, that when men or women assume, for instance, I want to talk about cooking or crafts, I get completely turned off because I have zero interest in either.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 2, 2021 17:53:15 GMT -5
I read the article. I still want to know if a person identifies as a "They" or "Them", are they male or female. Gender neutral is OK with me but most people expect interactions between people to have some gender differences. I didn't read the article. Could you give up the need to know what sex someone is? It's a comfortable habit, but could you deprive yourself if it were requested? I really hate the "They/Them" pronoun. Nearly every damn time that clunky pronoun gets used someone asks, "Who?" because they know the one person being mentioned but "They" means it's more than one person. Then you waste time nailing down that only the one non-binary person is being referred to. 30 seconds of dull, yet confusing conversation. I do intend to implore that non-binaries accept "ze/zir" as their pronoun. They/them is plural. Choosing to confuse unnecessarily and waste people's time is rude. I doubt they wish to make nuisances of themselves, but that's what they do when they refer to themselves in the plural. The Queen Mother can get away with it, but everyone else needs to use he, she, or ze, thank you. They/them is already spoken for. |
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Post by Handy on Aug 2, 2021 19:47:06 GMT -5
Mirrorchild
Could you give up the need to know what sex someone is?
It's a comfortable habit, but could you deprive yourself if it were requestedMy first thought is I will mostly ignore ze/zir, they and other non-binary people. Life is too complicated already. I do not need another layer of complication. I can almost guarantee if I got the pronoun wrong, the person would not like what I had to say. Maybe it is like counter refusing. Why go there if I anticipate an issue. Can I converse with non-binary people? Most likely yes but why add another layer of complication so I just might keep the interactions short. Maybe I watched too many Jordan Peterson videos
In reality very few conversations I have are of a sexual nature or have any bearing on gender, so maybe the gender issue is rarely going to be an issue.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 2, 2021 20:19:35 GMT -5
FWIW there are several languages that use gender-neutral pronouns. Those include Tagalog (Phillipines), Turkish, Swahili, and Chinese. The many people who speak those languages manage to thrive without having to use gender specific pronouns. We can, too. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages#:~:text=Austronesian%20languages-,Tagalog,of%20being%20a%20neuter%20gender. FWIW, I have friends who have changed genders since I've known them. I have friends who are nonbinary. While I do slip up sometimes, in general, it's not that hard to refer to people in the manner they prefer. |
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Post by baza on Aug 3, 2021 9:32:02 GMT -5
I figure that gender neutral language will be common in 50 or 100 years as language is ever evolving.
I doubt that me or my generation will catch up.
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 6, 2021 6:08:09 GMT -5
From my experience, I find a great deal of attention whoredom attached to the special pronouns. It's one thing to be special because one has accomplished something of note. It's entirely different to demand specialness for concocted reasons.
Asexuality is simply a sexual orientation that points nowhere. One woman I met this summer is definitely female and attractive, but, perhaps thanks to people bringing the idea of asexuality to the forefront, she now has a way to explain why she's going to be a let-down in any romantic relationship. And, her words about that were pretty harsh, perhaps to get her point across.
Then, we have androgenous people, who, looking at them will give hints of being either sex. Yes, I said either. I'm a realist at heart. There are only two genders. The rest are mental issues.
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Post by catlover on Aug 6, 2021 6:52:57 GMT -5
Fuck it, call me a dinosaur if you want, but to me, if you have a dick you're a guy (not necessarily a 'man'- lots of wimpish guys out there), and if you have a pussy you're a girl/woman (whatever the fuck you want to call it). Not too hard to figure out.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 10, 2021 18:51:20 GMT -5
Fuck it, call me a dinosaur if you want, but to me, if you have a dick you're a guy (not necessarily a 'man'- lots of wimpish guys out there), and if you have a pussy you're a girl/woman (whatever the fuck you want to call it). Not too hard to figure out. Is a trans-man a man? Or a woman who urinates standing up with heavy facial hair and a bass voice? That would be the simpler choice and the one they ask of us, so maybe you're more "woke" than many. |
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Post by ironhamster on Sept 5, 2021 3:28:46 GMT -5
A trans-man is a woman transitioning to a man.
The trans-woman is the woman standing at the next urinal complaining about how some habits are so hard to break.
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