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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 9:23:42 GMT -5
This was on Fakebook today by way of the Guardian. The LW is a young gay man, but I for one think his problem is universal - why is it so hard to find someone you both lust for, and like in non-sexual ways?! |
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Post by jim44444 on Oct 9, 2016 10:07:22 GMT -5
My favorite line from the article -
"Love is not for the risk averse. There are winners and losers, and few of us find satisfaction after a totally smooth ride."
I once had that relationship Holy Grail that he seeks. Passion and friendship. Lust and love, the perfect combination. Now that the passion and lust are gone I question whether the fairytale is sustainable over a long time. Maybe the tagline should be changed to "and they lived happily ever after until they didn't".
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Post by beachguy on Oct 9, 2016 10:07:37 GMT -5
This was on Fakebook today by way of the Guardian. The LW is a young gay man, but I for one think his problem is universal - why is it so hard to find someone you both lust for, and like in non-sexual ways?! Is it the fear of that that keeps so many stuck in relationships where they are not lusted for ? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 10:09:38 GMT -5
My favorite line from the article - "Love is not for the risk averse. There are winners and losers, and few of us find satisfaction after a totally smooth ride." I once had that relationship Holy Grail that he seeks. Passion and friendship. Lust and love, the perfect combination. Now that the passion and lust are gone I question whether the fairytale is sustainable over a long time. Maybe the tagline should be changed to "and they lived happily ever after until they didn't". And once you have had that - nothing else even comes close. Mr. Kat and I had it - for about 7 years. That makes it very hard to settle for less. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 23:10:10 GMT -5
Three years and waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 9:14:42 GMT -5
I'm not so sure how important lust is but I find desire to be a better description for myself. When two can share the same goal, then we can have something. I'm realizing this with my wife. Even if she agrees to my needs, can it still work? Would life not be better matched to someone who had similar needs as myself? Then again, I may be asking for too much.
Even though my relationship is beginning to turn for the better, I feel myself turning away from my spouse. Maybe, I'm just getting a healthier outlook on my marriage. Fear has kept me complacent, not something I'm proud of. Of course, I need to let some time pass to see where things develop.
I begin to study and play music when my wife started withholding sex. I took that drive and put it's towards something positive. But now I find that music can not feel that void. Music brings me much joy and it's something that I'll continue.
I want to live deeply and passionately, not just getting by. Can you even find this ideal with someone else or does it come from your own life?
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Post by beachguy on Oct 12, 2016 9:42:39 GMT -5
I'm not so sure how important lust is but I find desire to be a better description for myself. When two can share the same goal, then we can have something. I'm realizing this with my wife. Even if she agrees to my needs, can it still work? Would life not be better matched to someone who had similar needs as myself? Then again, I may be asking for too much. Even though my relationship is beginning to turn for the better, I feel myself turning away from my spouse. Maybe, I'm just getting a healthier outlook on my marriage. Fear has kept me complacent, not something I'm proud of. Of course, I need to let some time pass to see where things develop. I begin to study and play music when my wife started withholding sex. I took that drive and put it's towards something positive. But now I find that music can not feel that void. Music brings me much joy and it's something that I'll continue. I want to live deeply and passionately, not just getting by. Can you even find this ideal with someone else or does it come from your own life? Every time she refused you she extinguished a little bit of that flame. You never knew it had gone out until, in a final act of desperation, she tried to relight it. But once out it is a monumental task to relight it. Welcome to the counter refuser club. Many of us never knew we were there until we got a chance to do it during a too little, too late reset. Of course I hope I'm wrong and you beat the odds here and succeed. I only mention this because if took me a year or two to understand counter refusal. Until then I was quite confused, as you appear to be now. As far as finding that one person to fill your needs, you will never know unless you try. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 13:24:08 GMT -5
beachguy,
Could you tell me more about the counter refuser or explain what you went through? I'm surprised that I'm feeling this way. I would have thought that once sex started that it would be all great. Don't get me wrong, I love sex with my wife. But now, I look at her and I'm questioning other aspects of our relationship.
I'll say one thing, when you start addressing the issues of sexual refusal, it's goes much deeper than I realized. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster, happy one minute and sad the next. It's confusing to say the least.
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Post by beachguy on Oct 12, 2016 13:43:47 GMT -5
beachguy, Could you tell me more about the counter refuser or explain what you went through? I'm surprised that I'm feeling this way. I would have thought that once sex started that it would be all great. Don't get me wrong, I love sex with my wife. But now, I look at her and I'm questioning other aspects of our relationship. I'll say one thing, when you start addressing the issues of sexual refusal, it's goes much deeper than I realized. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster, happy one minute and sad the next. It's confusing to say the least. It was pretty simple. I slowly lost sexual (and other) interest in my wife. I was on the monthly plan for about 15 years or so. Each time we had sex it was increasingly humiliating as she subtly tried to discourage even a monthly. The resentment built up. The last 3 years or so was once a year- that was all I could tolerate. The last time was so bad I decided "never again". As I was finishing. I never asked again nor did she offer for the next 10 years. Then a Major Talk and she knew I was ready to walk so she reset me a couple of times. I was totally dead toward her. No feeling at all. And none of course from her end. I knew I was done but I was confused and went into a sort of fugue for months. Two years later I was gone. You don't seem nearly as far down that pit as I was. I was there for 10-13 years or so. I hope it isn't irrecoverable for you. Most people are in a counter refusing frame of mind by the time they get here. Most people get here too late to do anything but steel their resolve to exit. As I said, love is perishable. |
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Post by beachguy on Oct 12, 2016 13:52:46 GMT -5
I consider there to be two phases of counter refusing. First, when the refused stops initiating and second, when the refused turns the tables and refuses the refuser.
The second is more blatant and not everyone ever gets an opportunity to even refuse the refuser. I waited 10 years.
I figure when the refused stops initiating they are basically at the counter refusing stage. So I lump them together. Others might have another label?
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Post by beachguy on Oct 12, 2016 14:12:36 GMT -5
@heraclitus, I'm surprised you haven't run across counter refusing here. But the stories are filled with some variation of this: "I'm at the point where if {my refuser} ever initiated, I would probably turn {them} down."
That's counter refusing
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 14:47:45 GMT -5
I'm not to that point yet. My wife has not been refusing me that long. She started decreasing the quantity three years ago. I was always asking and it seemed liked the No's became more common. Then this last spring, she did not give it to me for two months. That was when I started to fight with her. Then it was another month without. I knew it was going bad and I begin to pull far away from her. I felt that if I did not do something it was going down hill fast. I found this forum back in August but did not join. Since joining here, it's helped me realize a lot. I'm not alone but I can see how this could drag on the rest of my life, if I let it.
I think that our marriage is salvageable. I want to give it my best shot since we have kids. But a part of me realizes if she does not change then I'll have to leave. Maybe that's the issue that I need to come to terms with.
It may be best for me to seek out counseling without the wife.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 12, 2016 15:43:09 GMT -5
I highly recommend at least some individual therapy, @heraclitus. You have to get the right one, but the one I found pre-divorce was very affirming to me.
I am allowed to feel what I feel & no emotion is "wrong" - what I do with it can be, but letting myself feel it isn't.
Mine was good at helping me verbalized what I wanted to do. I started out wanting to leave & find XYZ in a new partner (a laundry list of wishful thinking, that is). But when clarified, it became clear that I just wanted out. My own freedom to my personhood became the only goal.
Anyway- a good therapist can really help.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 18:09:02 GMT -5
I highly recommend at least some individual therapy, @heraclitus. You have to get the right one, but the one I found pre-divorce was very affirming to me. I am allowed to feel what I feel & no emotion is "wrong" - what I do with it can be, but letting myself feel it isn't. Mine was good at helping me verbalized what I wanted to do. I started out wanting to leave & find XYZ in a new partner (a laundry list of wishful thinking, that is). But when clarified, it became clear that I just wanted out. My own freedom to my personhood became the only goal. Anyway- a good therapist can really help. That's something that a lot of people myself included need spelled out for them, sometimes over months or years of therapy, that thoughts and feelings aren't good or bad, they are just activity in your head. Actions are what matter. |
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Post by unmatched on Oct 12, 2016 19:08:33 GMT -5
I want to live deeply and passionately, not just getting by. Can you even find this ideal with someone else or does it come from your own life? I guess my feeling on this is you need both. It needs to come from within you - you need to find your spark, your connection, your passion for life and you need to prioritise that and make yourself a life that can express it. If you wait for anybody else to act or change then it will never happen. But nobody can live deeply and passionately in isolation - you need relationships and feelings for that. You need to be doing things in life that are meaningful for you, and you need to have relationships in your life that are intimate and vibrant. So you might find, in the course of building your passionate, connected life, that some of your existing relationships start to look shallow and stale and detrimental, or perhaps simply pointless. I remember a post a while back (probably from baza), saying the best thing you can do while trying to work all this out is focus on yourself. And as we do that, you often find that over time our refusers have a way of making themselves more and more irrelevant. |
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