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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 17, 2016 22:09:31 GMT -5
whuffo - start with removing the meal delivery & also fulfilling the phoned-in requests. Try to practice NOT doing for her what she is capable of doing herself. Keep up with the kids, if you think that's right (& I think it probably is - they shouldn't necessarily suffer from their mom being a twit). But do not deliver food to her in the bed. Unless she has a 103 fever, there is NO excuse for that crap! She's lucky you even cook it! And - try a couples counselor about fair division of labor. Cause you are getting the absolute shit end of the stick, buddy. , not only are you enabling her bad behavior, you are rewarding her. Of course, when you stop all this enabling you will not endear yourself to her, it surely won't wake up her nonexistent sex drive. But it's the first step out of the Hell you unwittingly put yourself in. Maybe...1% too harsh there? I confess. Guilty of falling for the "happy wife, happy life syndrome". Years of training getting ready for my obligation, duty, responsibility, to make my spouse feel wanted, cherished ,admired, and desired. Then comes the BIG MISTAKE. Expecting nothing in return. (Yet patiently ,hoping and waiting for things to improve. ) Then comes the self doubt and blame. What a slow, manipulative, unknown, destructive, path it is. Side note: 5 months into the divorce and I still do her laundry!!!! |
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Post by southerngirl on Dec 17, 2016 22:23:40 GMT -5
I think we could all use some good codependency therapy work.
I'm curious - why does being in the military mean you wouldn't get custody of the children? You aren't on active duty - are you likely to have to be later? If you can prove she's a worthless loser-taker-lazy bones, why would a judge give her full custody? I'd be documenting all you do and make sure there are plenty of witnesses who can testify to your status of single father who is perfectly capable of raising the children alone. Are you eligible for any kind of counseling? Surely it would help to get help, and it will look good for you later when someone else can validate the situation you are in.
just my .02
Oh - and welcome to the group nobody wants to be in. at least you know you aren't alone and aren't crazy
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Post by beachguy on Dec 17, 2016 22:25:40 GMT -5
whuffo , not only are you enabling her bad behavior, you are rewarding her. Of course, when you stop all this enabling you will not endear yourself to her, it surely won't wake up her nonexistent sex drive. But it's the first step out of the Hell you unwittingly put yourself in. Maybe...1% too harsh there? I confess. Guilty of falling for the "happy wife, happy life syndrome". Years of training getting ready for my obligation, duty, responsibility, to make my spouse feel wanted, cherished ,admired, and desired. Then comes the BIG MISTAKE. Expecting nothing in return. (Yet patiently ,hoping and waiting for things to improve. ) Then comes the self doubt and blame. What a slow, manipulative, unknown, destructive, path it is. Side note: 5 months into the divorce and I still do her laundry!!!! Perhaps. I could have sugar coated it but then I'd be enabling him to continue enabling her... |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 17, 2016 22:46:48 GMT -5
Everybody's got a right to be a sucker..once.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 17, 2016 23:04:39 GMT -5
So, a I off my rocker when I have had a difficult time with trying to leave? My refuser is a stay at home mom, and would have a difficult time on her own. Plus we have kids, and I'm military, so not many judges would give the kids to me in a divorce. But on the flip side, she's been so masterful in her manipulation that, even though I'm the one bringing home the bacon,I am also the one who gets the kids up and ready for school, delivers her breakfast to her in bed, since she doesn't usually get out of it that early, takes the kids to school, then rushes to work, where I usually get at least one phone call or email from her with some request that I need to fulfill (ie, calling to make an appointment for her or a kid, etc), then leave work early, rush back across town to get the kids, get them home, then make dinner, again, usually delivered to her in bed, get the kids ready for bed, then sleep and do it all again the next day... that's the usual day in our household, yet I still feel bad for her. Is this common or am I just got completely insane? First thing, take Princess down from her pedestal and blow it to Kingdom Come! Phone call request? "Do it yourself" I have a post on my blog about giving a spouse a deadline of a year or two as to when the divorce/separation will happen. That way, they have time to get a job, maybe get skills. Sorry, but you need to do some distancing from your wife, so as not to be her walking wallet. Here's a great web-sight for you. There's even one about taking princess down from her pedestal. shrink4men.com/shrink4men.com/2012/04/05/putting-women-on-pedestals-dont-do-it/ |
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Post by csl on Dec 18, 2016 0:01:17 GMT -5
First thing, take Princess down from her pedestal and blow it to Kingdom Come! Phone call request? "Do it yourself" I have a post on my blog about giving a spouse a deadline of a year or two as to when the divorce/separation will happen. That way, they have time to get a job, maybe get skills. Sorry, but you need to do some distancing from your wife, so as not to be her walking wallet. Here's a great web-sight for you. There's even one about taking princess down from her pedestal. shrink4men.com/Okay, what am I looking at here? Is this site something that lies within the real of the Manosphere? |
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Post by TMD on Dec 18, 2016 2:21:16 GMT -5
Hello. I'm Harvey. I used to have a lot to say on the Experience Project site. Towards the waning days of that site I felt like I had less and less to say. I didn't follow the crowd this way. Not sure why.
I'm bossy and I think I'm a lot more interesting than I am. But don't worry, you'll find me fascinating. Or I'll believe you find me fascinating, which is just as good.
For those who don't know me or forgot me (is that really possible? C'mon now!) I live in a sexless marriage. It's not completely sexless but we have been at less than 5 times a year for probably a decade. I have no interest in divorce. I have three young children and I get the only fulfillment of my life from them. Well, that and flirting with women on the elevator.
Happy you're back, Harv. |
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Post by whuffo on Dec 18, 2016 12:27:35 GMT -5
To answer th question on why I likely wouldn't get custody, I am in a job where I've done a lot of deployments and have been recently diagnosed with having sustained a pretty major TBI some years ago from a blast. While I came through that pretty well and don't have many I effects (headaches and a few dizzy spell mostly) it's enough in most cases.
And I'm sorry ladies but I've heard that "happy wife, happy life" line my whole marriage and it's been one of those things that can be used to manipulate.im all about trying to get get missus happy, but when it's used for years with no return on investment, it's BS. I'm sure like to lot of folks on here, there's bee no return outside th bedroom either
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Post by shamwow on Dec 18, 2016 14:15:31 GMT -5
It's hard to know where to start.
I'm a healthy 44 year old man who will be married for 20 years next July. I have two great kids, a 16 year old girl and a 12 year old boy. I have a great house and career. I make a living that puts me in the top 5 percent of households. Basically, I'm living the American dream...from the outside.
Behind closed doors, this idyllic life isn't so rosy. My wife and I lived together for about 2 years before getting married. I am glad we did since it gave us an opportunity to know each other before making a life-long commitment. We had a great time traveling and enjoying life and the sex was great. Almost immediately after the words "I do" were uttered, it was like she had said "I do believe some things are changing around here." Over the first couple years, not just sex, but affection dwindled to a trickle. There were only two times that it even came close to picking up...when she wanted to have kids. It went from sex a few times per week to a few times per month to a few times per year. The next milestone is a few times per decade (coming up on 3 years now), and is not what I signed up for.
If it were just the sex, that would be bad enough, but it's been 12 years since I received a kiss, a hug, or even a simple "I love you." Every so often we have "The Talk", and although she says she "gets it" by her actions (or lack thereof) she apparently does not. We are roommates who raise kids together. They and our address are about the only thing we have in common anymore. If we talk about anything else (including the freaking weather), she just wants to argue about it. The only solution (a pretty crappy and cowardly one) is to avoid any conversation.
Over the past decade, I essentially went through the 5 phases of grieving without even realizing it. Denial lasted the longest. Anger didn't last long before I started bargaining. Perhaps there was more I could do. When it was apparent there was nothing I could do, I hit depression. I wasn't taking meds about it (I mean, what kind of med gets my wife interested in me again?), and I didn't handle it particularly well. I started drinking more and everything in my life started to suffer. My marriage had changed from having a lifelong partner to having a lifelong sentence.
I was raised was to be a man of my word. When I pledged "till death do us part" I was giving my word I would follow through. However, as I thought more about it, that vow comes at the end of the promise. When the rest of the contract ("have and hold", "honor and love", etc...) is broken, why should the duration mean anything anymore. So last spring, I decided to start planning my exit. From my perspective, the number one priority is to protect my kids and even my wife as much as possible. Protecting my kids makes sense, of course, but whether I like it or not, I will have a relationship with my wife for decades to come. If for no other reason, for my kids.
My exit plan basically consists of letting her know this summer that I am no longer operating under "till death till we part" assumption. We've got 2 more years before my daughter turns 18. At that point, my son will be about 15. My wife will be 48. She has been a stay at home mom since we had kids and I want to give her time to get a career started back up again. She has a masters degree and shouldn't have a problem with that. Also, by that time, we should be close to be done paying off the house. We can start over with no debt and each having some assets. I'm looking for an equal split, and will even take one in her favor (money wise) since with my income, I will recover from anything pretty quickly.
It is only the prospect of getting out of this marriage that has gotten me into that final state of acceptance. I am no longer depressed. I drink less, spend a ton more quality time with my kids, and am getting back in shape. You know, the things that a healthy and happy person does. It might be a bit scary to be starting over in my mid 40's, but it is absolutely terrifying to picture myself in my 60's with 20 more years of a shitty excuse of a marriage.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 18, 2016 14:45:05 GMT -5
It's hard to know where to start. I'm a healthy 44 year old man who will be married for 20 years next July. I have two great kids, a 16 year old girl and a 12 year old boy. I have a great house and career. I make a living that puts me in the top 5 percent of households. Basically, I'm living the American dream...from the outside. Behind closed doors, this idyllic life isn't so rosy. My wife and I lived together for about 2 years before getting married. I am glad we did since it gave us an opportunity to know each other before making a life-long commitment. We had a great time traveling and enjoying life and the sex was great. Almost immediately after the words "I do" were uttered, it was like she had said "I do believe some things are changing around here." Over the first couple years, not just sex, but affection dwindled to a trickle. There were only two times that it even came close to picking up...when she wanted to have kids. It went from sex a few times per week to a few times per month to a few times per year. The next milestone is a few times per decade (coming up on 3 years now), and is not what I signed up for. If it were just the sex, that would be bad enough, but it's been 12 years since I received a kiss, a hug, or even a simple "I love you." Every so often we have "The Talk", and although she says she "gets it" by her actions (or lack thereof) she apparently does not. We are roommates who raise kids together. They and our address are about the only thing we have in common anymore. If we talk about anything else (including the freaking weather), she just wants to argue about it. The only solution (a pretty crappy and cowardly one) is to avoid any conversation. Over the past decade, I essentially went through the 5 phases of grieving without even realizing it. Denial lasted the longest. Anger didn't last long before I started bargaining. Perhaps there was more I could do. When it was apparent there was nothing I could do, I hit depression. I wasn't taking meds about it (I mean, what kind of med gets my wife interested in me again?), and I didn't handle it particularly well. I started drinking more and everything in my life started to suffer. My marriage had changed from having a lifelong partner to having a lifelong sentence. I was raised was to be a man of my word. When I pledged "till death do us part" I was giving my word I would follow through. However, as I thought more about it, that vow comes at the end of the promise. When the rest of the contract ("have and hold", "honor and love", etc...) is broken, why should the duration mean anything anymore. So last spring, I decided to start planning my exit. From my perspective, the number one priority is to protect my kids and even my wife as much as possible. Protecting my kids makes sense, of course, but whether I like it or not, I will have a relationship with my wife for decades to come. If for no other reason, for my kids. My exit plan basically consists of letting her know this summer that I am no longer operating under "till death till we part" assumption. We've got 2 more years before my daughter turns 18. At that point, my son will be about 15. My wife will be 48. She has been a stay at home mom since we had kids and I want to give her time to get a career started back up again. She has a masters degree and shouldn't have a problem with that. Also, by that time, we should be close to be done paying off the house. We can start over with no debt and each having some assets. I'm looking for an equal split, and will even take one in her favor (money wise) since with my income, I will recover from anything pretty quickly. It is only the prospect of getting out of this marriage that has gotten me into that final state of acceptance. I am no longer depressed. I drink less, spend a ton more quality time with my kids, and am getting back in shape. You know, the things that a healthy and happy person does. It might be a bit scary to be starting over in my mid 40's, but it is absolutely terrifying to picture myself in my 60's with 20 more years of a shitty excuse of a marriage. Well shamwow.... you seem much more clued up than most of us when we arrived here! Glad to have you. Poke around and read some stuff here, you will find kindred spirits all over the shop  |
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Post by shamwow on Dec 18, 2016 14:51:11 GMT -5
It's hard to know where to start. I'm a healthy 44 year old man who will be married for 20 years next July. I have two great kids, a 16 year old girl and a 12 year old boy. I have a great house and career. I make a living that puts me in the top 5 percent of households. Basically, I'm living the American dream...from the outside. Behind closed doors, this idyllic life isn't so rosy. My wife and I lived together for about 2 years before getting married. I am glad we did since it gave us an opportunity to know each other before making a life-long commitment. We had a great time traveling and enjoying life and the sex was great. Almost immediately after the words "I do" were uttered, it was like she had said "I do believe some things are changing around here." Over the first couple years, not just sex, but affection dwindled to a trickle. There were only two times that it even came close to picking up...when she wanted to have kids. It went from sex a few times per week to a few times per month to a few times per year. The next milestone is a few times per decade (coming up on 3 years now), and is not what I signed up for. If it were just the sex, that would be bad enough, but it's been 12 years since I received a kiss, a hug, or even a simple "I love you." Every so often we have "The Talk", and although she says she "gets it" by her actions (or lack thereof) she apparently does not. We are roommates who raise kids together. They and our address are about the only thing we have in common anymore. If we talk about anything else (including the freaking weather), she just wants to argue about it. The only solution (a pretty crappy and cowardly one) is to avoid any conversation. Over the past decade, I essentially went through the 5 phases of grieving without even realizing it. Denial lasted the longest. Anger didn't last long before I started bargaining. Perhaps there was more I could do. When it was apparent there was nothing I could do, I hit depression. I wasn't taking meds about it (I mean, what kind of med gets my wife interested in me again?), and I didn't handle it particularly well. I started drinking more and everything in my life started to suffer. My marriage had changed from having a lifelong partner to having a lifelong sentence. I was raised was to be a man of my word. When I pledged "till death do us part" I was giving my word I would follow through. However, as I thought more about it, that vow comes at the end of the promise. When the rest of the contract ("have and hold", "honor and love", etc...) is broken, why should the duration mean anything anymore. So last spring, I decided to start planning my exit. From my perspective, the number one priority is to protect my kids and even my wife as much as possible. Protecting my kids makes sense, of course, but whether I like it or not, I will have a relationship with my wife for decades to come. If for no other reason, for my kids. My exit plan basically consists of letting her know this summer that I am no longer operating under "till death till we part" assumption. We've got 2 more years before my daughter turns 18. At that point, my son will be about 15. My wife will be 48. She has been a stay at home mom since we had kids and I want to give her time to get a career started back up again. She has a masters degree and shouldn't have a problem with that. Also, by that time, we should be close to be done paying off the house. We can start over with no debt and each having some assets. I'm looking for an equal split, and will even take one in her favor (money wise) since with my income, I will recover from anything pretty quickly. It is only the prospect of getting out of this marriage that has gotten me into that final state of acceptance. I am no longer depressed. I drink less, spend a ton more quality time with my kids, and am getting back in shape. You know, the things that a healthy and happy person does. It might be a bit scary to be starting over in my mid 40's, but it is absolutely terrifying to picture myself in my 60's with 20 more years of a shitty excuse of a marriage. Well shamwow .... you seem much more clued up than most of us when we arrived here! Glad to have you. Poke around and read some stuff here, you will find kindred spirits all over the shop LOL, I only appear "clued up" because over the past year I've been able to talk about this with my friends and some members of my family. Talking about it is what finally got me out of my feelings of trapped depression, even if the folks I'm talking with don't really understand. Thanks for the welcome. I'm hoping that reading how others who are going through the same thing are coping with it will continue to help. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 18, 2016 14:54:39 GMT -5
shamwow. That's a massive step you have taken in the right direction Mr. Speaking out in real life is much harder than here... you'll be able to get EVERYTHING out and off your chest if you want to. We all get it! Every scenario you can imagine leading to a sexless marriage gets discussed here. We also have a giggle  X
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 18, 2016 17:28:17 GMT -5
Welcome. Sorry you found yourself here but I get it! Originally I was staying until the kids got older but I saw an opportunity sooner and got out in my forties and not my fifties. That same fear of looking back on my life and saying I should have left in my forties was not a regret I wanted to face.
Life is too short! Find your happiness!!
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Post by JMX on Dec 18, 2016 19:22:15 GMT -5
whuffo - agree on stopping her princess life. Holy crap. That woman has it GREAT. I am an Army brat. My mom was a SAHM - she did everything where we girls were concerned. TBH - I love my daddy, but I barely remember him from our childhood while he was in the military. He had important work! I cannot imagine any military wife taking her role as such, so callously. She is simply unpatriotic. You deserve to not have to do ANY of what you do, weekly (at least) blow jobs and bi-weekly sex. She has a provider and a protector as a husband. She should cherish every moment that you're home and make it happy for YOU. She needs friends in the same boat, and she needs to hang out with them OFTEN - maybe it will rub off on her. Maybe. Omg. She makes me so mad!!! My dad would never have had to call for one of our appointments!!!! Argh. I am more pissed off about your situation than most. Military life is a special beast. Time to take her comfy life away. Fuck her.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 18, 2016 20:04:50 GMT -5
shamwow, our stories are so similar! No military for me, and I have six teens. Some straight shooting advice for you. Two years is way to long. Get started now. I have heard a story or two about military divorces, not pretty. Long and dragged out. Get as much attorney advice as you can. My youngest was 12 also. Just turned 13. Two lines from my therapist that apply to you. Carve these into your brain. 1) You have gone above and beyond to save your marriage, your wife has put forth ZERO effort. 2) There is not even a dying ember there left to start a flame. You two are giving a terrible example of what a healthy, working, relationship/marriage, should be for your children. Now from me to you: Think of the true person you really are. That has been stolen from you for 20 years. Time to start giving it back to your kids. Time to start taking, taking it back for YOURSELF! (If you don't quit you can't loose!) They are going to go wild over there REAL father. Sleep on that tonight!!! Fun dad, exciting dad, dad your making me laugh, hey everybody, I want you to meet my dad! Dad your here, your the best! I think you will find this article (and many others) very useful. shrink4men.com/2012/04/05/putting-women-on-pedestals-dont-do-it/ |
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