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Post by lwoetin on Aug 17, 2017 5:16:55 GMT -5
Hi, Joe. You're certainly welcome here. Don't be put off by the strong opinions. I'm going to take a guess from your comments that you're the low-libido spouse in your relationship. There is a ton of frustration here, and a bit of venom. A lot of it comes from one or more of these common factors: * Bait and switch, where sex is strong at the beginning and then gets turned off like a light switch, accompanied by the strong sense that it was fully premeditated. The rules of the game were changed unilaterally once the hook was set through marriage, children, or finances. * Denial of the facts. Refusing to acknowledge, discuss, or work on remediating the problem. Pretending that everything is great, despite being told repeatedly that it's not. * Indifference and hostility. Turning a deaf ear to a spouse who usually craves much more than just sex - usually a deeper, more intimate connection and the simple need to feel desired. In some cases the relationship becomes adversarial - sadly, over whether or not to be closer as a couple. The bottom line often emerges similar to "I don't feel loved / desired, and my spouse doesn't care enough to fix it". This leads to some pretty screwed up self-esteem issues, and for some people it really does feel like escape is a matter of life or death. Most of us have wasted years of our life in limbo trying to fix something our spouses have no intention of fixing. Generally speaking, the folks here aren't hostile against sexless marriages, as long as that's what a couple agrees on. But virtually everyone here has had the situation forced upon them unwillingly, which is where the anger stems from. So the question would be... how open and honest have you been with your wife? Rather than answer that here, I'd suggest you post a new thread in the Sexless Marriage Issues section, where more folks will see it and respond. None of this really applies to me. You'll find out more as I post in other threads. Thanks for the warm welcome. there should not be hostility here. Just exchange of experiences and constructive ideas. Just in case, wear a 👷. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 17, 2017 8:17:35 GMT -5
Celibatejoe, please create a thread with your story. It will get lost if you post it threads started by others.
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Post by theexplorer on Aug 18, 2017 12:10:29 GMT -5
I've been with my wife for nearly 1/2 of my life. We had a wonderful relationship until menopause hit. I NEVER expected how that would change our lives! She had many, many difficulties with menopause. In fact, I've never known another woman who had so many problems with menopause! Unfortunately, one of the results of menopause was a great reduction in her sexual desire.
In more recent years, she has developed some other health issues that cause her to live in varying degrees of constant pain. Pain can also, understandably, destroy a person's desire for sex. She still appreciates intimacy and companionship. So, my situation is better than many of the folks on this site. I am thankful for what we have, and have had in the past. I do miss sex though!
Some of my personal interests include great food, reading intellectually stimulating books, health and fitness, pets, animals, the outdoors, and science.
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 18, 2017 13:09:08 GMT -5
I've been with my wife for nearly 1/2 of my life. We had a wonderful relationship until menopause hit. I NEVER expected how that would change our lives! She had many, many difficulties with menopause. In fact, I've never known another woman who had so many problems with menopause! Unfortunately, one of the results of menopause was a great reduction in her sexual desire. In more recent years, she has developed some other health issues that cause her to live in varying degrees of constant pain. Pain can also, understandably, destroy a person's desire for sex. She still appreciates intimacy and companionship. So, my situation is better than many of the folks on this site. I am thankful for what we have, and have had in the past. I do miss sex though! Some of my personal interests include great food, reading intellectually stimulating books, health and fitness, pets, animals, the outdoors, and science. Yeah, my 2nd wife hit menopause when my daughter (by my first wife) turned 16. To this day, my daughter expresses pride that she broke up that marriage. There was more to it than that, but she and my second wife didn't get along. I am thankful for what my wife and I have, too, although I don't miss sex. I love great food, READING, oh yes I love reading, riding my big motorcycle, bicycling, outdoors and SOME science. Thanks for the welcome.  |
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paulb
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Post by paulb on Aug 21, 2017 22:09:44 GMT -5
Hi gang,
Long time, no see. I joined EP maybe a year or two before they went under. Found ILIASM.org in it's infancy, took a break, then found it again. I wasn't really a prolific poster on EP, just a few posts and a few comments. I was, though, a prolific reader of the stories and comments.
Good to see EP still has live links. I'll put those that I noted in the 'best of EP' thread here as a contribution.
Great group here (have been prolifically reading again). As always, good, succinct, advice. That's why I tend to come and go... it doesn't take to much to figure out what's going on in a SM after reading so many relatable (that word doesn't even do it justice) anecdotes and that, combined with 'get a consult from a local barrister' is about all one needs to know. Beyond that, the support, as good as it is, just adds to the sinkhole of time and emotional energy being in a SM takes. IMO, IME of course - I'm happy to see ongoing support when needed and maybe I'll be in that boat myself someday.
Happy trails.
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Post by dazednconfused on Aug 23, 2017 10:58:48 GMT -5
Wow. I read all the introduction stories and responses over the past week and man, I can relate! On one hand, it is comforting to know that I am not the only one going through this and on the other hand, it is disturbing to know that so many people suffer from a spouse with no desire!
I am a 58-year old man who has been married for 35 years. During the first 23 years of marriage, we made love at least 2 or 3 times per month and I was always the pursuer. Then, my wife's sexual desire totally disappeared and I found myself having sex with a "corpse". I heard this referred to as a "starfish" on this forum. Her arms and legs limp on the bed, no eye contact... just waiting for it to be over... We were no longer "making love". Rather, she was just yielding her body to be my source of gratification. Whenever I asked why she had no desire, there was always an excuse that has changed many times over the years. For the last 10 years, there has been no sex at all and I have been masturbating. It feels like there is an unspoken understanding that my wife realizes I must be masturbating and prefers this so I don't bother her for sex any more.
We have had many discussions regarding this, some very heated. These discussions are always initiated by me but they lead nowhere. We have been to counseling twice, but neither has helped. I am reaching the conclusion that things will never change and sadly, the comments on this forum reinforce the reality that things will not change.
Other than the lack of sex, we actually have a pretty good relationship. We raised three children who are all out of the house in houses of their own. Financially, things are pretty solid. We have good friends and I am sure that people view us as a great couple. We never fight about anything other then the lack of sex. She claims she has never had an affair and she is not gay and I believe her on both counts.
How does this happen? Doesn't everyone need love and intimacy? Isn't the drive for sex greater than the drive for food and sleep?! I have been a model husband, and father. I am athletic, in excellent health and in great shape for a 58-year old. What gives?
I am extremely frustrated and at a crossroads.
Do I remain in a sexless marriage and accept this as my "cross to bear"? I don't believe that masturbation is an appropriate way to express one's sexuality and this is presenting a major moral conflict for me. Do I remain in a sexless marriage and cheat? This will present a greater moral conflict!! Do I leave my wife and find happiness with another woman? If I left her, the divorce would be contentious and our children, friends and relatives would likely blame me for the breakup. When I have brought up the subject of divorce, she is strongly against this and contends that we can work through our issues, but nothing ever changes.
I keep waiting for another alternative, but the days, weeks and months continue on with no change. Please know that it really helps me to write all of this down to people that understand what I am going through! I don't expect people on this forum to provide any quick answers to my questions, but I would like to continue to engage with the people here to gain wisdom, understanding and guidance!!
Thanks for reading and listening!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 15:25:23 GMT -5
Welcome dazednconfused. I am not sure what to tell you, but my situation was very similar. I was with my refuser for 28 years, and left when she told me that this was just the way it was going to be. My joke of a marriage was totally sexless for the last 6 years. I want to tell you some things: 1- Your W needs to have her hormones checked and consider bioidentical hormones. See if this product has a doctor in your area biote.com Don't trust any doctor that says she is in "normal range." She probably needs some hormones. 2 - Insist on talking about this with her. Let her know in no uncertain terms that the marriage is in serious jeopardy. 3 - You need to ejaculate on a regular basis. Your prostate will not be healthy unless it is emptied regularly. You are increasing your risk of prostate cancer. 4 - As for divorce, don't be too sure that friends & relatives will blame you. I felt the same way, but after I told them that I had not had sex in 6 years, they completely understood. Even the leaders at my church were very supportive. I suggest you start a thread in the SM issues section. Tell your entire story & read the comments. I am certain you will find some insights there. Also, there is a link to my blog below. I wrote it during my process starting in 2015. It may help a bit. |
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Post by baza on Aug 23, 2017 22:01:08 GMT -5
I'd suggest that you sweep up those references as to what is morally right (or wrong), put them in a box and place the box out in the garage.
Then, take a cold hard objective look at the facts of your situation.
You've got three choices
#1 - stay in your marriage, and try and control the resentment levels you feel
#2 - stay in your marriage and cheat
#3 - leave your marriage
These are all perfectly legitimate options.
Most members here opt for #1 until their position becomes untenable.
Some members here opt for #2 and that invariably produces some "interesting" and messy outcomes
Some members here opt for #3
None of these options have any moral superiority over the others. They are all perfectly legitimate options with their respective up (and down) sides.
These situations are NOT about morals, they are about choices.
And lucky *you* get to make the choice, and get to wear the consequences of your choice.
Your present choice is #1.
Staying with that choice is perfectly valid.
Checking out the other options is just as valid.
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Post by dazednconfused on Aug 24, 2017 16:47:43 GMT -5
Welcome dazednconfused . I am not sure what to tell you, but my situation was very similar. I was with my refuser for 28 years, and left when she told me that this was just the way it was going to be. My joke of a marriage was totally sexless for the last 6 years. I want to tell you some things: 1- Your W needs to have her hormones checked and consider bioidentical hormones. See if this product has a doctor in your area biote.com Don't trust any doctor that says she is in "normal range." She probably needs some hormones. 2 - Insist on talking about this with her. Let her know in no uncertain terms that the marriage is in serious jeopardy. 3 - You need to ejaculate on a regular basis. Your prostate will not be healthy unless it is emptied regularly. You are increasing your risk of prostate cancer. 4 - As for divorce, don't be too sure that friends & relatives will blame you. I felt the same way, but after I told them that I had not had sex in 6 years, they completely understood. Even the leaders at my church were very supportive. I suggest you start a thread in the SM issues section. Tell your entire story & read the comments. I am certain you will find some insights there. Also, there is a link to my blog below. I wrote it during my process starting in 2015. It may help a bit. |
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Post by dazednconfused on Aug 24, 2017 16:53:11 GMT -5
Flashjohn- thanks for your "welcome" and your advice! At this point, I agree that I must confront her on the things you mention and see where this leads. I will start a thread in the SM section and continue the dialogue there. Thanks!
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Post by dazednconfused on Aug 24, 2017 17:02:51 GMT -5
I'd suggest that you sweep up those references as to what is morally right (or wrong), put them in a box and place the box out in the garage. Then, take a cold hard objective look at the facts of your situation. You've got three choices #1 - stay in your marriage, and try and control the resentment levels you feel #2 - stay in your marriage and cheat #3 - leave your marriage These are all perfectly legitimate options. Most members here opt for #1 until their position becomes untenable. Some members here opt for #2 and that invariably produces some "interesting" and messy outcomes Some members here opt for #3 None of these options have any moral superiority over the others. They are all perfectly legitimate options with their respective up (and down) sides. These situations are NOT about morals, they are about choices. And lucky *you* get to make the choice, and get to wear the consequences of your choice. Your present choice is #1. Staying with that choice is perfectly valid. Checking out the other options is just as valid. Baza - Thanks for replying! I believe I am at that "untenable" position of the masturbation phase. I just can't go on like this. I am at the crossroads and must make a tough choice. Thanks for your support! |
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Post by dazednconfused on Aug 24, 2017 17:23:03 GMT -5
...it is disturbing to know that so many people suffer from a spouse with no desire!... ...Whenever I asked why she had no desire, there was always an excuse that has changed many times over the years... ...my wife realizes I must be masturbating and prefers this... ...These discussions are always initiated by me but they lead nowhere... ...We have been to counseling twice, but neither has helped... ...I am reaching the conclusion that things will never change... ...I am extremely frustrated and at a crossroads... ...When I have brought up the subject of divorce, she is strongly against this and contends that we can work through our issues, but nothing ever changes... ...I keep waiting for another alternative, but the days, weeks and months continue on with no change... "Other than the lack of sex, we actually have a pretty good relationship" Welcome dazednconfused ! We have a lot in common. So basically, everything's great bar the sex, right? This is the song we sing when we come here. I did, anyway. It is so easy to lump suffering in with just a lack of sex. And excuses. Avoidance. Communication problems. Lack of empathy. Misunderstandings. Resistance to change. Despondency. Extreme frustration. Serious contemplations of divorce. Despair. Other than the lack of sex, we actually have a pretty good relationship. If you could leave your wife for a woman who could give you all these things PLUS all the hot sex you wanted, would you do it? Padgemi - Interesting question. I would prefer a dissolution to our marriage that is mutual. If she agreed that a divorce is the best option, then I would do it. However, it looks like a divorce would have to be something I have to drive and it will likely get ugly. I need to have more discussions with her on this. How did things get resolved with you? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 17:46:12 GMT -5
Wow. I read all the introduction stories and responses over the past week and man, I can relate! On one hand, it is comforting to know that I am not the only one going through this and on the other hand, it is disturbing to know that so many people suffer from a spouse with no desire! I am a 58-year old man who has been married for 35 years. During the first 23 years of marriage, we made love at least 2 or 3 times per month and I was always the pursuer. Then, my wife's sexual desire totally disappeared and I found myself having sex with a "corpse". I heard this referred to as a "starfish" on this forum. Her arms and legs limp on the bed, no eye contact... just waiting for it to be over... We were no longer "making love". Rather, she was just yielding her body to be my source of gratification. Whenever I asked why she had no desire, there was always an excuse that has changed many times over the years. For the last 10 years, there has been no sex at all and I have been masturbating. It feels like there is an unspoken understanding that my wife realizes I must be masturbating and prefers this so I don't bother her for sex any more. We have had many discussions regarding this, some very heated. These discussions are always initiated by me but they lead nowhere. We have been to counseling twice, but neither has helped. I am reaching the conclusion that things will never change and sadly, the comments on this forum reinforce the reality that things will not change. Other than the lack of sex, we actually have a pretty good relationship. We raised three children who are all out of the house in houses of their own. Financially, things are pretty solid. We have good friends and I am sure that people view us as a great couple. We never fight about anything other then the lack of sex. She claims she has never had an affair and she is not gay and I believe her on both counts. How does this happen? Doesn't everyone need love and intimacy? Isn't the drive for sex greater than the drive for food and sleep?! I have been a model husband, and father. I am athletic, in excellent health and in great shape for a 58-year old. What gives? I am extremely frustrated and at a crossroads. Do I remain in a sexless marriage and accept this as my "cross to bear"? I don't believe that masturbation is an appropriate way to express one's sexuality and this is presenting a major moral conflict for me. Do I remain in a sexless marriage and cheat? This will present a greater moral conflict!! Do I leave my wife and find happiness with another woman? If I left her, the divorce would be contentious and our children, friends and relatives would likely blame me for the breakup. When I have brought up the subject of divorce, she is strongly against this and contends that we can work through our issues, but nothing ever changes. I keep waiting for another alternative, but the days, weeks and months continue on with no change. Please know that it really helps me to write all of this down to people that understand what I am going through! I don't expect people on this forum to provide any quick answers to my questions, but I would like to continue to engage with the people here to gain wisdom, understanding and guidance!! Thanks for reading and listening!!! I am truly sorry to read your story. The one line that stood out in your story was you being worried about being blamed if you walked out. I think that is something to give further thought to. The way I look at it, it is your life and you have a responsibility to find your happiness. Your friends, relatives and children a) with all due respect dont have much of a business judging you and b) are not responsible for your happiness. If you feel leaving your wife will do you good then I think that is something to give further thought to. |
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Post by shamwow on Jul 11, 2018 21:55:59 GMT -5
Been married for 21 years now and pretty much give no fucks anymore, excuse the pun. At this point, I'm only in it so that I can see my children (4 and 6) grow up...as soon as they're grown, I'm fucking gone. If I were smarter, I would have dumped her ass long before we had kids. But like so many on here, I was dumb and thought the good parts were enough to sustain the marriage until she worked out whatever issues she had. I'm a goddamn idiot. I should have realized that all she wanted was a ring on her finger and a man to support her and brag about. Once I said "I do", she pretty much locked up the cookie jar. I used to be idiotically proud of being the faithful husband who would never cheat on his wife despite abundant opportunity and temptation. I realize now I wasted those opportunities for someone who wasn't deserving of my faithfulness. It's a fucking miracle she opened her legs enough times to actually get pregnant. I mean, I can count the number of times we've had sex since my first child was conceived 6 years ago on the fingers of one hand. It's been nearly 2 years since we last had sex. I tried to be patient, I tried to be understanding. Well, fuck that shit! I'm no longer her husband, she's just my roommate. No more acknowledgement of our anniversary, Valentines Day, or her birthday. I got tired of pretending to be the wonderful family man; now I'm just the best father I can be to my kids. I know she's embarrassed now when her friends and family ask her and me what we did on those occasions and I say, "Nothing". Her cousin, whom she is close with, asked me if I wanted any help or advice planning something special for our 20th anniversary. I told her "Mind your own fucking business!" with such vehemence that she actually recoiled a bit. Our "marriage" is irreparably damaged, and I have no desire to even try to fix it anymore. I think now she wants to try to work it out, but there's nothing there anymore as far as I'm concerned. Now I get to be the asshole and she gets to walk on eggshells trying to please me and save our marriage. She used to try to keep up the illusion of a successful marriage on social media, but she learned her lesson after I torpedoed those efforts a few times. I used to feel like I was trapped in the marriage with her; now, I feel like she is trapped in it with me. I do my best to conceal my contempt for our marriage from our kids, but I do still worry that I'm setting a bad example for their future relationships. I give them lots of affection and never yell at their mom in front of them, though. I'm probably coming off like a giant asshole, and I'm cursing in this post far more than I ever do in real life. I'm just happy to vent for a little bit to some people who actually know kind of what I am going through. One year since your introduction. Saw your post today. Something has to give, brother, or something is gonna snap. |
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