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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 12:04:09 GMT -5
Greatcoastal my comment about having sex 4 times a day was, yes it does happen, especially on the several day honeymoon. I never heard it (sex 4X a day) lasting several years. My age group of men was told women didn't like sex all that often so I never expected sex more than a couple times a week. I do remember having sex 3X a day for a couple of days while on our honeymoon I know the no sex thing is a major problem for most ILIASM posters. Sex on the honeymoon? Never heard of it. |
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Post by Handy on Dec 21, 2020 16:21:33 GMT -5
tooyoungtobeold, sorry to hear that it didn't happen for you. I experienced wedding night sex, another go at it in the morning, an after-noon er, and bedtime sex a few times on the honeymoon. My W said she was getting sore so we cut back to 2X a day and then 1X a day. At the time I thought I was a pest so I thought cutting back was the right thing to do. Back home we had sex 2 or 3 times a week most of the time, for a while. I could have done it every day but didn't want to be a pest.
When my W wanted to get pregnant, then the sex was really good. She was into it like she wanted to get all of the semen I could deliver. |
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Post by lessingham on Dec 23, 2020 5:13:40 GMT -5
I agree anger without action is corrosive. I find when I get really angry and do not act then the anger collapses into self loathing and humiliation. During the bad times it led to self harm. Acting on it means saying "I am really angry with you and I want to do this to sort it out" Self loathing and humiliation might lead to feeling as though you don't deserve treatment that doesn't get you angry. Vicious cycle. Such feelings may present outwardly as someone receptive to poor treatment. Perhaps an objective assessment of your worth may be of value to those you become angry with. Win win. Sorry about the self-harm issue. You use past tense. You escaped? Not an easy thing. Congrats. Ever visited TheMighty.com? I escaped from that cycle thank God. Not something that I can honestly recommend. It was part of the "promise" I made with my therapist, she would see me but only if I agreed to a list of actions I would not take. It worked well. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 23, 2020 7:01:07 GMT -5
Sorry about the self-harm issue. You use past tense. You escaped? Not an easy thing. Congrats. Ever visited TheMighty.com? I escaped from that cycle thank God. Not something that I can honestly recommend. It was part of the "promise" I made with my therapist, she would see me but only if I agreed to a list of actions I would not take. It worked well. Congrats. I've heard of therapists blackmailing their patients. Interesting to hear that it works at least some of the time. I've been a skeptic. Maybe I'm wrong. |
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Post by jerri on Dec 24, 2020 3:40:16 GMT -5
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Post by blueguy on Mar 28, 2021 15:29:04 GMT -5
I can totally relate. I finally had enough and when my spouse asked me last night "Do you want to do it?" I actually turned her down. Well, it wasn't direct but I asked her if she was doing it because she felt it was something I wanted, or did she really want to as well. That turned into an argument with her reply telling me that it doesn't matter; as the wife it is her responsibility to take care of my need. I tried telling her that it really hurts me that she doesn't desire me or get turned on and want to have sex with me and she tried telling me that for women it doesn't work that way. I had told her that from what I had read online, women can and do get turned on at the thought of sex with their husband and do have that desire. She thinks I'm being whiney when I tell her I don't feel attractive anymore and I don't feel like much of a man in that department. She said she still found me attractive and hot. I told her that I've noticed my drive has been slowing down since I entered my 40s and that honestly if it would save constantly arguing about it and save this uncomfortable cloud over our marriage, we can simply just forgo sex from now on. She was all too eager to agree to that.  Since it ended in an argument she said she was no longer interested and turned over to go to sleep. Even if we had, it would have been the same starfish sex we always have. No other positions, no oral either direction, no foreplay, no touching me at all. I am quite tired of that as it is. I don't think I was wrong in turning her down. I certainly don't initiate anymore and honestly I am at the point where I cringe when we are getting ready for bed and waiting to see if she asks. On the other hand, when I do think about sex I still get aroused, and when I look at porn I still get turned on. I just don't get turned on by her anymore. |
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DrNo
Junior Member
Posts: 52 
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by DrNo on Mar 28, 2021 16:18:38 GMT -5
Same here! Week six since we had anything.
Nothing changes, it just gets less and less.
I’m close to throwing in the towel.
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Post by csl on Mar 28, 2021 22:57:45 GMT -5
I can totally relate. I finally had enough and when my spouse asked me last night "Do you want to do it?" I actually turned her down. Well, it wasn't direct but I asked her if she was doing it because she felt it was something I wanted, or did she really want to as well. That turned into an argument with her reply telling me that it doesn't matter; as the wife it is her responsibility to take care of my need. I tried telling her that it really hurts me that she doesn't desire me or get turned on and want to have sex with me and she tried telling me that for women it doesn't work that way. I had told her that from what I had read online, women can and do get turned on at the thought of sex with their husband and do have that desire. She thinks I'm being whiney when I tell her I don't feel attractive anymore and I don't feel like much of a man in that department. She said she still found me attractive and hot. I told her that I've noticed my drive has been slowing down since I entered my 40s and that honestly if it would save constantly arguing about it and save this uncomfortable cloud over our marriage, we can simply just forgo sex from now on. She was all too eager to agree to that. Since it ended in an argument she said she was no longer interested and turned over to go to sleep. Even if we had, it would have been the same starfish sex we always have. No other positions, no oral either direction, no foreplay, no touching me at all. I am quite tired of that as it is. I don't think I was wrong in turning her down. I certainly don't initiate anymore and honestly I am at the point where I cringe when we are getting ready for bed and waiting to see if she asks. On the other hand, when I do think about sex I still get aroused, and when I look at porn I still get turned on. I just don't get turned on by her anymore. “Responsive arousal”—it’s a thing, so she’s not wrong, coming out of the gate. swell.damewellness.co/spontaneous-versus-responsive-desire-blex/ChrisTaylor, over at Forgiven Wife, did a post for wives a few years ago and talked about how many (most?) women don’t have slavering sex drives, but can get aroused after getting started. That said, starfish sex is not the same thing. It might behoove you to be upfront about not wanting a starfish for a sex partner, but acknowledge that if your masculinity hangs on her level of slavering, then you are open to a better understanding of her sexuality. As Chris Taylor likes to point out, why does her sexuality need to be a mirror of yours? |
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Post by Handy on Mar 29, 2021 0:07:26 GMT -5
What Most People Experience: Responsive Desire
So if you don’t get turned on easily, or spontaneously, does that mean you’re broken? Absolutely not. In fact, you’re more normal than you think—especially as COVID-19 has altered the way people relate to sex in 2020, some for better, some for worse. Dr. Nagoski claims most people experience desire in a responsive way, and like everything else, the amount of stimulus necessary to incite a response varies from person to person. If your desire is more responsive, you might view sex through the lens of, “What am I getting out of this experience? Is the effort worth the reward?”
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Post by jerri on Mar 29, 2021 3:48:04 GMT -5
DrNo and blueguy What would happen if you left this book on the coffee table? I did this and got no response, he ignored it. But I was in apathetic mode and I did it just because! Nothing new in this book and it's contents didn't match the title. Why Married Couples don't have sex At least Not With Each Other" When it first came out I could only get it through Canada Amazon. 
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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 29, 2021 5:30:54 GMT -5
...That turned into an argument with her reply telling me that it doesn't matter; as the wife it is her responsibility to take care of my need. I tried telling her that it really hurts me that she doesn't desire me or get turned on and want to have sex with me and she tried telling me that for women it doesn't work that way. I had told her that from what I had read online, women can and do get turned on at the thought of sex with their husband and do have that desire. She thinks I'm being whiney when I tell her I don't feel attractive anymore and I don't feel like much of a man in that department. She said she still found me attractive and hot. I told her that I've noticed my drive has been slowing down since I entered my 40s and that honestly if it would save constantly arguing about it and save this uncomfortable cloud over our marriage, we can simply just forgo sex from now on. She was all too eager to agree to that. Since it ended in an argument she said she was no longer interested and turned over to go to sleep. Even if we had, it would have been the same starfish sex we always have. No other positions, no oral either direction, no foreplay, no touching me at all. I am quite tired of that as it is. I don't think I was wrong in turning her down. I certainly don't initiate anymore and honestly I am at the point where I cringe when we are getting ready for bed and waiting to see if she asks. On the other hand, when I do think about sex I still get aroused, and when I look at porn I still get turned on. I just don't get turned on by her anymore. You weren't wrong if you're ready with a plan. Can you truly go without forever or your wife dies? We have a few members who managed that. Handy comes to mind.) Saying let's stop then asking again shreds the cred. Her acceptance has created a renegging charge against you. You won't want to do that twice. I'd be curious, if she could wave a magic wand and grow sexually interested, would she? Has it ever been good? Does she know what it takes to bring her pleasure? Does she find sexual pleasure wrong, even in the context of marriage? Are body issues in play? She feels unattractive? She finds genitals hideous: yours, her own, or both? (To which I'd say, "You're overthinking it. Don't think about your parents having sex, and don't think about yourself either.) My wife's menopause has limited her capabilities, but her effort for a year and a half has been admirable. Our primary method of pleasuring her is grinding against my leg. After which she's feeling generous and gets disturbed by the idea of stopping then and there. I offer because Sex hurts a little for her and I figure a clean session of bliss for her once in a while would make me happy with myself. Would your wife be interested in a session where only she gets something out of it? Would that alter her perception of sex's purpose? Would that wig her out? Pleasuring her, without you feeling unwanted due to starfish sex might be something you'd like, despite obvious frustration effects. It can be temporary until she starts feeling generous, or permanent and you can be the generous one and know you've taken the high road. (and a bit of extra justification if you ever outsource or divorce.) |
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Post by blueguy on Mar 29, 2021 7:57:47 GMT -5
...That turned into an argument with her reply telling me that it doesn't matter; as the wife it is her responsibility to take care of my need. I tried telling her that it really hurts me that she doesn't desire me or get turned on and want to have sex with me and she tried telling me that for women it doesn't work that way. I had told her that from what I had read online, women can and do get turned on at the thought of sex with their husband and do have that desire. She thinks I'm being whiney when I tell her I don't feel attractive anymore and I don't feel like much of a man in that department. She said she still found me attractive and hot. I told her that I've noticed my drive has been slowing down since I entered my 40s and that honestly if it would save constantly arguing about it and save this uncomfortable cloud over our marriage, we can simply just forgo sex from now on. She was all too eager to agree to that. Since it ended in an argument she said she was no longer interested and turned over to go to sleep. Even if we had, it would have been the same starfish sex we always have. No other positions, no oral either direction, no foreplay, no touching me at all. I am quite tired of that as it is. I don't think I was wrong in turning her down. I certainly don't initiate anymore and honestly I am at the point where I cringe when we are getting ready for bed and waiting to see if she asks. On the other hand, when I do think about sex I still get aroused, and when I look at porn I still get turned on. I just don't get turned on by her anymore. You weren't wrong if you're ready with a plan. Can you truly go without forever or your wife dies? We have a few members who managed that. Handy comes to mind.) Saying let's stop then asking again shreds the cred. Her acceptance has created a renegging charge against you. You won't want to do that twice. I'd be curious, if she could wave a magic wand and grow sexually interested, would she? Has it ever been good? Does she know what it takes to bring her pleasure? Does she find sexual pleasure wrong, even in the context of marriage? Are body issues in play? She feels unattractive? She finds genitals hideous: yours, her own, or both? (To which I'd say, "You're overthinking it. Don't think about your parents having sex, and don't think about yourself either.) My wife's menopause has limited her capabilities, but her effort for a year and a half has been admirable. Our primary method of pleasuring her is grinding against my leg. After which she's feeling generous and gets disturbed by the idea of stopping then and there. I offer because Sex hurts a little for her and I figure a clean session of bliss for her once in a while would make me happy with myself. Would your wife be interested in a session where only she gets something out of it? Would that alter her perception of sex's purpose? Would that wig her out? Pleasuring her, without you feeling unwanted due to starfish sex might be something you'd like, despite obvious frustration effects. It can be temporary until she starts feeling generous, or permanent and you can be the generous one and know you've taken the high road. (and a bit of extra justification if you ever outsource or divorce.) She never masturbates, or at least that’s what she tells me. Sex was good the first few months of our marriage and that’s about it. The majority of my sex life has been me going solo with porn. She knows our sex life is bad but refuses to do anything on her end. She thinks masturbation is perverted, porn perverted yet she will watch shows on tv with sex scenes and it’s no big deal to her. She does have body image issues and always has, yet will never do anything to address the issue. I’m honestly at the point now where I’m counting down the time until our youngest is an adult. Hopefully I will be desirable to someone then. 😔 |
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Post by Handy on Mar 29, 2021 10:28:41 GMT -5
Mirrororchid
Can you truly go without forever or your wife dies? We have a few members who managed that. Handy comes to mind.)Being sexual with my W causes her medical and emotional issues and maybe I am too in-tune with not wanting to cause other people problems.
I have since gone to doing what makes me happy or less frustrated on my own. I try to strike up friendships with other people and see where it goes. Jerri, "Why Married Couples don't have sex At least Not With Each Other" sounds like a good title. Are you going to do a book review?
Responsive desire is a real thing.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 29, 2021 22:26:04 GMT -5
During the honeymoon period, we were having sex at least four times a day, every day, and then suddenly it all just stopped. Four times a day? How long was the honeymoon period? The first couple of years or just a week or two? The author did lay out a timeline, stating that the 1st year and a half (of their 5 years together) was good sex, then came the 3 years of having sex only 8 times. Is the honeymoon period the 1st year and a half? Or was it a week of an actual honeymoon after the wedding? Does it really matter? The complete, cold, zero turn off, shut down, is the heart of the matter. I'm not clear on how it can be from the end of the "honeymoon period" , considering that the abandoned spouse is operating in the same marriage, and still wants sex with his/her spouse.In my 6 or 7 years single, I've dated a lot of divorced and separated women, and I've found a pattern that runs pretty consistently. Chances are, something occurred in the relationship around the end of those two years that changed the way Handy's partner felt about him as a person, to such a degree that he no longer was viewed as a desirable sexual partner. I've seen it over and over. |
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Post by Handy on Mar 29, 2021 23:22:15 GMT -5
I am aware of several incidents where my W might have considered me less capable of being the go-to, get things done person and where she may have felt less safety for the future. Medical issues knocked me down several notches a couple of times in my life.
I have written out many, many pages of events in my life and marriage that lead to a SM for me.
I still never heard about couples having sex 4 times a day on a regular basis, which was one of my original questions.
Maybe someone would write that type of poll. If so, put me down for 3X a day for one day on the honeymoon and then 1X or maybe 2X for the rest of the honeymoon week. Also, going back to work 10 days later, put me down for 2 or 3 times a week.
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