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Post by isthisit on Jan 9, 2021 2:42:07 GMT -5
Thank you, I was a bit alarmed there to see comments I did not, and would not make under my name. You’re quite correct my contribution was an encouragement to avoid just such a deterioration of the discussion. We are an accepting bunch here, with no judgement of the differences and preferences of others in terms of sexual choices and activity. Let’s extend that philosophy of acceptance of other differences. At least both of the US options can use a hairbrush. 😊 Yes, I am vexed that I brought you into the response to make it look like your words. Still don't know how that happened.  Sorry. No drama. Woke me up though 😲. |
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Post by jerri on Jan 9, 2021 3:18:12 GMT -5
Thank you, I was a bit alarmed there to see comments I did not, and would not make under my name. You’re quite correct my contribution was an encouragement to avoid just such a deterioration of the discussion. We are an accepting bunch here, with no judgement of the differences and preferences of others in terms of sexual choices and activity. Let’s extend that philosophy of acceptance of other differences. At least both of the US options can use a hairbrush. 😊 Yes, I am vexed that I brought you into the response to make it look like your words. Still don't know how that happened. Sorry. I have a little outdated Acer notebook and it does that to me too. I have to go in and edit the mistakes. Sometimes if I go into BBCode it won't do that. Weird. I think trump screwed us more than helped us. He is the best example I can find of a narcissistic sociopath. His niece's book was just a crystal ball for all of this. Those pipe bombs and molotov cocktails and the noose for the Vice President was just way over the top. Just an example of how dangerous his call to action orders were. I felt really sad for the 4 people and the one officer passing.llitoff |
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Post by jerri on Jan 9, 2021 3:20:16 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing, great episode, as usual. |
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Post by saarinista on Jan 9, 2021 14:38:31 GMT -5
Who are the moderators of this forum, please?
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Post by saarinista on Jan 9, 2021 14:46:36 GMT -5
I feel attacked by your post. I feel attacked by you saying you don't care if I "have a problem" with you. You implied that I was putting out "sanctimonious BS." That feels very unfriendly. I did not treat you with disdain. Please don't disrespect me either. You stated clearly that there is going to be chaos and violence for four years now that Mr. Trump, who you say you support, is leaving office. I'm NOT saying you DO know of any specific plans. However, as a reminder, anyone (including you and I) should report knowledge of anyone plotting violent activities to law enforcement. Please do not assume that I am a fan of violent protests. They are not acceptable. Peaceful protest is a right in America. Storming Target or other buildings is bad. Storming a secure government building to s and precipitating the deaths of numerous people is much worse. If the admins have a problem with my defending myself, I'll be happy to leave the forum. But I will NOT be disdained for stating respectfully my concerns about how my remarks here are characterized. I can get that kind of abuse at home. I really don't care what you think of me. If that makes you feel like I am attacking you, it shouldn't. You replied to me and I responded. Also, I never said the next four years would see violence; I said chaos. The two are not exclusive and please don't add words to what I say to fit your narrative. Also, when I responded, I think I somehow made it look like "isthisit" was responding, or at least her picture appeared above my comment...not sure how that happened, but she had nothing to do with my comment. In fact, I believe she was trying to suggest a change in subject. My apologies to her for the glitch. Please don't tell me how your remarks "should" make me feel to fit YOUR OWN internal narrative. I think it's best I leave this forum for a place where my thoughts and voice are respected and heard. |
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Post by Handy on Jan 9, 2021 19:19:54 GMT -5
I don't think anyone should leave the forum but some politeness is greatly needed. Saarinista I would miss you. I think you contribute greatly to the forum.
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Post by petrushka on Jan 9, 2021 23:29:44 GMT -5
I don't think anyone should leave the forum but some politeness is greatly needed. Saarinista I would miss you. I think you contribute greatly to the forum. Politeness is good, especially with people who listen and are prepared to enter into thoughtful conversations.
Unfortunately being polite to fascists or tyrants does not yield anything - they'll clobber you regardless. Being polite to a concentration camp guard or a Chinese secret policeman will still land you in a camp. When they put on their hat of office, they leave their humanity, and reason, on the hook.
I was just reading a discussion by divorce lawyers in one of the two national papers: ok, sometimes it's inexperienced or greedy lawyers who make divorce drawn out or expensive, they said, but mostly it's one of the spouses: because with some people it's just impossible to negotiate or compromise. You cannot get through to them. Particularly once emotions run high, there's a dead zone between the ears, and you can't engage on a polite, or any other level. Which is why sometimes it's best to walk away (sic).
I have a Q-anon  type in my boardgaming group, and I certainly won't discuss it with her ever again, there is just no point. But I'm not going to drop the group, because the other people certainly did not agree with her, but none of us got listened to.  |
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Post by Handy on Jan 10, 2021 0:33:46 GMT -5
Petrushka, I was assuming the people on the forum were nothing like fascists or tyrants and we were expected to be polite to each other, which I try to do.
I have been on forums where nasty things were said or implied. It didn't do anyone any good and no one won or changed their mind.
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Post by jerri on Jan 10, 2021 1:58:16 GMT -5
Rather than fear and despise the extremists on either side, there is always the nuclear option. Crazy, I know... FWIW, the father of one of my kid’s best friends was in the mob. I do not agree with him. I also do not consider him to be scum of the earth.g Took them a long time. Great outcome. Thanks. I never learn when I talk politics. They believe what they believe and it took a lifetime to get there. They are really lucky night didn't set in with the lunatics. |
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Post by jerri on Jan 11, 2021 2:56:13 GMT -5
Took them a long time. Great outcome. Thanks. I never learn when I talk politics. They believe what they believe and it took a lifetime to get there. They are really lucky night didn't set in with the lunatics. I was born in Alabama, jerri . It does take a lifetime. But I’m about halfway there and I’ve learned a lot. 🙂 For me the Confederate flag meant Southern music! I overlooked everything else. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 11, 2021 21:40:56 GMT -5
I really don't care what you think of me. If that makes you feel like I am attacking you, it shouldn't. You replied to me and I responded. Also, I never said the next four years would see violence; I said chaos. The two are not exclusive and please don't add words to what I say to fit your narrative. Please don't tell me how your remarks "should" make me feel to fit YOUR OWN internal narrative. I think it's best I leave this forum for a place where my thoughts and voice are respected and heard. Leaving the forum seems extreme. I've figured that "Off-Topic" was the only place politics was okay to bring up. As liberals, I suspect you and I are outnumbered. Feels that way on a lot of discussion boards. It pleases me we all condemn "our own" for their law breaking. It troubled me that deadzone75 seemed to imply that we don't. There's a minority that makes excuses for police brutality demonstrators that loot Target. There are a handful of people who justify trying to hunt down Mike Pence and threaten his life. (I can supply footage if needed.) At the very least the people who were doing the threatening. The assumption that the few represent the many allows many(most?) of both sides to grossly misunderstand their rhetorical opponents. Part of the problem is COVID. Lots of people who normally are too busy working can show up at political rallies and make things into a much bigger deal than they otherwise would be (for better and for worse.) Both sides turned out record number of voters. Is greater political engagement a feature of the pandemic? Maybe so. Will it die off as people get back to work and movies, bars, and dance clubs re-open? Probably. Four years of chaos coming up? Maybe not. Maybe four years of pretty dull tedium. Or just four years of chilling out after a year of tension, isolation and cabin fever. A time to get back on airplanes to fly to bucket list tourist traps. It's uncharted territory. By Fall of 2021, I'm expecting a whole lot less tension. No one will have the time for it. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 12, 2021 0:50:45 GMT -5
Mirrorchild said: "As liberals, I suspect you and I are outnumbered. Feels that way on a lot of discussion boards." I'm a liberal as is my partner and an overwhelming number of my friends so I thought that what your estimation that liberals are outnumbered couldn't possibly be true. Then I googled and found this 2019 Gallup poll: "Since 1992, the percentage of Americans identifying as liberal has risen from 17% then to 26% today. This has been mostly offset by a shrinking percentage of moderates, from 43% to 35%. Meanwhile, from 1993 to 2016 the percentage conservative was consistently between 36% and 40%, before dipping to 35% in 2017 and holding at that level in 2018." But this part of the article gives me hope as does the much younger generation: "The percentage of Democrats identifying as liberal averaged 51% in 2018, up from 50% in 2017, marking the first time a majority of Democrats have adopted this term, following gradual increases since the 1990s." news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 12, 2021 5:54:49 GMT -5
Mirrorchild said: "As liberals, I suspect you and I are outnumbered. Feels that way on a lot of discussion boards." I'm a liberal as is my partner and an overwhelming number of my friends so I thought that what your estimation that liberals are outnumbered couldn't possibly be true. Then I googled and found this 2019 Gallup poll: "Since 1992, the percentage of Americans identifying as liberal has risen from 17% then to 26% today. This has been mostly offset by a shrinking percentage of moderates, from 43% to 35%. Meanwhile, from 1993 to 2016 the percentage conservative was consistently between 36% and 40%, before dipping to 35% in 2017 and holding at that level in 2018." But this part of the article gives me hope as does the much younger generation: "The percentage of Democrats identifying as liberal averaged 51% in 2018, up from 50% in 2017, marking the first time a majority of Democrats have adopted this term, following gradual increases since the 1990s." news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx1992 is a peculiar starting point given that the Reagan-Bush tag team spent 12 years making "liberal" a dirty word. That was 18-30 year olds who didn't want to be associated with something uncool. They may still have been liberals, but they wouldn't dare say so. The percentage may have been the same all along but as conservatism had a very good run with Bill Clinton wanting nothing to do with the word "liberal" and phoning it in on delivering any such goals, the obsession with the word over the course of 28 years came across as hysteria. Perhaps the youngsters growing up under that rabid foaming of the mouth hatred of the word had kids ready to rebel and find out what was so bad about marijuana legalization, gay rights, and food stamps. Perhaps they found the fear and loathing bizarre and in great need of rhetorical defense. Liberals have gotten up off the mat but they're woozy, calling themselves "progressives", still trying to marry "third way" harnessing of market forces to assisting people with no money with which to feed the profits that free markets seek to collect. They embrace free market solutions to mitigate externalities without raising costs for American industries and end up unconsciously conceding the argument. That said, global capitalism has made for a race to the bottom and when a society rejects exploitation, another nation volunteers to inflict it on itself and the cry of "losing jobs" mutes the call for worldwide human fulfillment. To ban dumping of carcinogens into drinking water supplies, provide for toilets that keep children from dying of cholera, to invest in research to eradicate malaria. These are the liberal dreams of the "New World Order". But no one will make money off such things. Sometimes the opposite. Any money dedicated to such causes does not get deployed in developing PlayStation 7 and iPhone 16. So, not much of it gets done. Can it be otherwise? Should it be? This is the grand argument, but I don't know how many see that stark choice and consciously make their decisions. Liberals want the iPhone 17. Conservatives don't want children getting preventable diseases. Not much discussion goes into deliberately deciding the optimal compromise. Stopping now before I make a book out of this post. |
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Post by petrushka on Jan 19, 2021 23:22:44 GMT -5
Here is something to think about: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55661782The upshot of it lies in the very last sentence of the article, as expressed by one of the survivors of this concentration camp, and about the female guards there who helped torture, and kill, and abuse the prisoners. I ask Selma if she thinks the guards were diabolical monsters. "I think they were ordinary women doing diabolical things. I think it's possible with loads of people, even in England. I think that can happen anywhere. It can happen here if it's allowed."
I have read in other places where torturers and concentration camp guards were described as "good, caring fathers and husbands" ... who would then put on their uniform and go and torture and kill innocent people.
Ordinary people will do diabolical things. All it takes is the right kind of programming and delusional thinking. "the Jews are trying to run our country down, we need to make Germany Great Again." That was Hitler's line. "The muslims are taking over our country, they are out-breeding us". (substitute Mexicans if you like) "The EU are trying to stuff our economy with red tape and worker and consumer protection laws".
The thing is to stay vigilant, and not to let them get away with it, or the most atrocious diabolical things can happen.
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Post by jerri on Jan 19, 2021 23:54:55 GMT -5
Think of the gladiators and all those poeple who wanted to see violence. Barbaric!
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Sorry. 
type in my boardgaming group, and I certainly won't discuss it with her ever again, there is just no point.
