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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 5, 2023 6:06:04 GMT -5
Texted the link to my wife. She replied by asking "Do you feel better for sending this to me?" I replied,"I'd feel better if I felt physically desired by you instead of feeling compelled to send such an article" Sounds like your attempt was met with attitude. This is something I learned the hard way every single year when I would gear up for "the talk", where I would plead my case, reaffirm my desire for her, tell her how no sex hurt me, etc. Similarly, I would occasionally send her info, sometimes subtly, other times very bluntly. It never mattered, and only served as an opportunity to once again turn me into the villain. How dare I "attack" her out the blue like that?? (That was actually something she said after one of "The Talks". Really looking forward to that story of the turnaround. How did you break through the defensiveness to generosity? (Don't answer here. I can wait.)
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 5, 2023 6:53:30 GMT -5
.... I took her rejection and gave it right back to her in the form of sleeping in another room, only giving a cursory greeting in the morning and evening, and generally acting uninterested in any interaction with her. Within about three weeks it was getting to her and me sending the article started the talking/learning/healing process. ... ... Meet her rejection and stone cold indifference with the same. Meanwhile work on making a better version of you in every way: mentally, physically, confidence. She will notice. When another article comes along that speaks to your sexless marriage in a way that you validate, send it to her. Ask her to read it. Follow up and ask if she read it. Ask if it is applicable to your relationship. If she won't engage double down on your emotionless "I don't notice you" efforts. I've been under the impression this approach has been taken by numerous ILIASM members and it's been met with both spouses digging in. Three weeks. What were those three weeks like before the epiphany? Wait. Nevermind. Hold it for your essay. Can you share some of the articles your wife brought to you that you found most useful/interesting/surprising?
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 5, 2023 7:05:35 GMT -5
However, a couple of months ago, I asked him to ask the doctor for semaglutide and he has lost 30lb already! It takes away all of the cravings! Semaglutide is a miracle drug right now. I am hoping that as he gets better/in better shape, we can re-discuss T therapy and his mood will be better too. He exercises now too. Exercise? That's...sounding...like an antidepressant. I have felt that food addiction could be rooted in depression. High calorie food, notably processed carb/sugar may be a form of self-medicating. That your husband's cravings went away with teh weight loss and his increased activity levels suggest this drug is performing some function normally served by unhealthy "food". Well, lookie there, hot off teh presses (as science goes): clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04466345Great share, Ms. Blujay. I may have to suggest semaglutide to my wife.
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 5, 2023 8:33:47 GMT -5
I've been under the impression this approach has been taken by numerous ILIASM members and it's been met with both spouses digging in. Three weeks. What were those three weeks like before the epiphany? Wait. Nevermind. Hold it for your essay. Can you share some of the articles your wife brought to you that you found most useful/interesting/surprising? It's in the essay, to be published in the future or when I am confident that I haven't been fooled in the short term. It's getting ridiculously lengthy. It will I'm sure get the record for the ratio of most words/fewest reads. My wife didn't share the links with me. She just stated she has been reading some blogs and getting a new perspective on this. I didn't ask to review them, figuring that can be her discovery and she can share what she finds helpful. Not surprisingly, she doesn't agree with everything she reads. The major takeaway is that withholding sex is wrong. And destructive. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 6, 2023 6:54:51 GMT -5
I've been under the impression this approach has been taken by numerous ILIASM members and it's been met with both spouses digging in. Three weeks. What were those three weeks like before the epiphany? Wait. Nevermind. Hold it for your essay. Can you share some of the articles your wife brought to you that you found most useful/interesting/surprising? It's in the essay, to be published in the future or when I am confident that I haven't been fooled in the short term. It's getting ridiculously lengthy. It will I'm sure get the record for the ratio of most words/fewest reads. My wife didn't share the links with me. She just stated she has been reading some blogs and getting a new perspective on this. I didn't ask to review them, figuring that can be her discovery and she can share what she finds helpful. Not surprisingly, she doesn't agree with everything she reads. The major takeaway is that withholding sex is wrong. And destructive. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. Don't be surprised if I ask to make it (or a portion) into an episode of * REFUSED*. (With your permission, of course.) So that it will go unread and unheard. Don't be too surprised if you're wrong. Turnaround stories are like Bigfoot sightings. The way Mrs. Blunder8 is participating in the recovery is, in itself, unique at ILIASM. My own remission had none of that and I think it'll be of great interest even if the reset is short-lived. Too bad she hasn't shared what she found. I'd ask you to ask her for the links, but in your shoes, I'd let sleeping dogs lie. But then again, I'm a coward. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Curiosity isn't reason enough, for me, to play with matches. Bummer, though.
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 6, 2023 9:18:54 GMT -5
Over the past week I've been reflecting and writing. I'm focusing not on how I fell into the SM trap but on my strategy to cope. Also, as you suggested, I'm focusing on the factors in place that helped the recovery.
This treatise checks in at around 2200 words. It's been therapeutic to write it. I hesitate to share it now. A six week turnaround vs. over 30 years of neglect. I need to see more evidence that I'm not being scammed by an elaborate reset. Isn't it strange that I'm getting what I want, yet fearful it will go away as mysteriously as it came?
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Post by deadzone75 on Jan 6, 2023 13:12:04 GMT -5
I've been under the impression this approach has been taken by numerous ILIASM members and it's been met with both spouses digging in. Three weeks. What were those three weeks like before the epiphany? Wait. Nevermind. Hold it for your essay. Can you share some of the articles your wife brought to you that you found most useful/interesting/surprising? It's in the essay, to be published in the future or when I am confident that I haven't been fooled in the short term. It's getting ridiculously lengthy. It will I'm sure get the record for the ratio of most words/fewest reads. My wife didn't share the links with me. She just stated she has been reading some blogs and getting a new perspective on this. I didn't ask to review them, figuring that can be her discovery and she can share what she finds helpful. Not surprisingly, she doesn't agree with everything she reads. The major takeaway is that withholding sex is wrong. And destructive. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. The fact that she actually looked into the issue is groundbreaking stuff. Seriously. Most refusers not only don't care how their refusal destroys you, but they would rather eat broken glass than to be subjected to any sort of online information that reminds them, maybe for the first time, what they are and what they are doing. Regardless of what she takes away, she actually sought out information. Major applause.
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 6, 2023 14:33:36 GMT -5
It's in the essay, to be published in the future or when I am confident that I haven't been fooled in the short term. It's getting ridiculously lengthy. It will I'm sure get the record for the ratio of most words/fewest reads. My wife didn't share the links with me. She just stated she has been reading some blogs and getting a new perspective on this. I didn't ask to review them, figuring that can be her discovery and she can share what she finds helpful. Not surprisingly, she doesn't agree with everything she reads. The major takeaway is that withholding sex is wrong. And destructive. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. The fact that she actually looked into the issue is groundbreaking stuff. Seriously. Most refusers not only don't care how their refusal destroys you, but they would rather eat broken glass than to be subjected to any sort of online information that reminds them, maybe for the first time, what they are and what they are doing. Regardless of what she takes away, she actually sought out information. Major applause. It is remarkable. I would put her in the "don't care" category up until recently. She could not see the destruction this was causing. I give her credit for the turnaround and investing in the recovery. I have to block out this fear I have that the good times won't last and the refusals and dry spells are returning. It's too soon to put out the "Mission Accomplished" banner.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 6, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -5
The fact that she actually looked into the issue is groundbreaking stuff. Seriously. Most refusers not only don't care how their refusal destroys you, but they would rather eat broken glass than to be subjected to any sort of online information that reminds them, maybe for the first time, what they are and what they are doing. Regardless of what she takes away, she actually sought out information. Major applause. It is remarkable. I would put her in the "don't care" category up until recently. She could not see the destruction this was causing. I give her credit for the turnaround and investing in the recovery. I have to block out this fear I have that the good times won't last and the refusals and dry spells are returning. It's too soon to put out the "Mission Accomplished" banner. Your wife had an affair. ( with herself and her love of power and control) You where cheated on. Cheated out of the trust that you openly, willingly, gave to her. You made yourself vulnerable, and sacrificed the gift that only one person was allowed to have.( she rejected it) She pledged and promised to return that to you, equally. You where denied that, repeatedly for decades. That's not something that can be "fixed" in a matter of weeks. Trust (respect) is not something that you can just demand, it has to be earned. Fortunately their are great success stories of couples who have done just that. However, YOU have every right to 'proceed with caution'....a continues learning experience! ( I feel the same way as I venture into dating, and giving my trust to a partner again.... gotta take the risk! )
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 6, 2023 18:19:24 GMT -5
It is remarkable. I would put her in the "don't care" category up until recently. She could not see the destruction this was causing. I give her credit for the turnaround and investing in the recovery. I have to block out this fear I have that the good times won't last and the refusals and dry spells are returning. It's too soon to put out the "Mission Accomplished" banner. Your wife had an affair. ( with herself and her love of power and control) You where cheated on. Cheated out of the trust that you openly, willingly, gave to her. You made yourself vulnerable, and sacrificed the gift that only one person was allowed to have.( she rejected it) She pledged and promised to return that to you, equally. You where denied that, repeatedly for decades. That's not something that can be "fixed" in a matter of weeks. Trust (respect) is not something that you can just demand, it has to be earned. Fortunately their are great success stories of couples who have done just that. However, YOU have every right to 'proceed with caution'....a continues learning experience! ( I feel the same way as I venture into dating, and giving my trust to a partner again.... gotta take the risk! ) Yeah. I need to chillax and give myself permission to proceed with caution. I'm still very hopeful. At the same time I can't let her or me get lazy. I'm coming out of a cold war. Heeding Reagan's advice: "Trust but verify."
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 6, 2023 19:04:13 GMT -5
Your wife had an affair. ( with herself and her love of power and control) You where cheated on. Cheated out of the trust that you openly, willingly, gave to her. You made yourself vulnerable, and sacrificed the gift that only one person was allowed to have.( she rejected it) She pledged and promised to return that to you, equally. You where denied that, repeatedly for decades. That's not something that can be "fixed" in a matter of weeks. Trust (respect) is not something that you can just demand, it has to be earned. Fortunately their are great success stories of couples who have done just that. However, YOU have every right to 'proceed with caution'....a continues learning experience! ( I feel the same way as I venture into dating, and giving my trust to a partner again.... gotta take the risk! ) Yeah. I need to chillax and give myself permission to proceed with caution. I'm still very hopeful. At the same time I can't let her or me get lazy. I'm coming out of a cold war. Heeding Reagan's advice: "Trust but verify." Yes my friend ,Yes! Do proceed forward, and enjoy, savoring these moments, like a new beginning! Your mind must be all over the place? I know I went through that with my new woman after my divorce.... Questions like, "can this be true?" "is this going to last?" "I can't believe what this does for my confidence! I feel giddy like a kid again!" Then would come fear., and doubt..."guard your heart", "you've already been too open and given too much... make sure you take back" "what if I'm not good enough?" Thank your wife, compliment her, ... do you know her love language? Focus on her love language... while , at the same time focus on yours ! Start and/or continue taking! Ask and you shall receive..._communication is the key! Be polite, and let your needs be well known and understood. I personally like the book "Boundaries in Marriage" Are you familiar with it? You might like it for yourself and sharing it with your wife. I learned so much about that in my last relationship!
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 7, 2023 6:42:00 GMT -5
Yeah. I need to chillax and give myself permission to proceed with caution. I'm still very hopeful. At the same time I can't let her or me get lazy. I'm coming out of a cold war. Heeding Reagan's advice: "Trust but verify." Yes my friend ,Yes! Do proceed forward, and enjoy, savoring these moments, like a new beginning! Your mind must be all over the place? I know I went through that with my new woman after my divorce.... Questions like, "can this be true?" "is this going to last?" "I can't believe what this does for my confidence! I feel giddy like a kid again!" Then would come fear., and doubt..."guard your heart", "you've already been too open and given too much... make sure you take back" "what if I'm not good enough?" Thank your wife, compliment her, ... do you know her love language? Focus on her love language... while , at the same time focus on yours ! Start and/or continue taking! Ask and you shall receive..._communication is the key! Be polite, and let your needs be well known and understood. I personally like the book "Boundaries in Marriage" Are you familiar with it? You might like it for yourself and sharing it with your wife. I learned so much about that in my last relationship! I'm good believing that we've turned a corner and will indeed devote my energies on continuing in that direction. I'm also good in having more knowledge, more confidence, and a better perspective should the rebound not be permanent. Thanks for the advice and resources.
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 10, 2023 9:20:29 GMT -5
Yeah. I need to chillax and give myself permission to proceed with caution. I'm still very hopeful. At the same time I can't let her or me get lazy. I'm coming out of a cold war. Heeding Reagan's advice: "Trust but verify." Yes my friend ,Yes! Do proceed forward, and enjoy, savoring these moments, like a new beginning! Your mind must be all over the place? I know I went through that with my new woman after my divorce.... Questions like, "can this be true?" "is this going to last?" "I can't believe what this does for my confidence! I feel giddy like a kid again!" Then would come fear., and doubt..."guard your heart", "you've already been too open and given too much... make sure you take back" "what if I'm not good enough?" So I have to ask if you were able to manage those fears and doubts. Do you still have these insecurities?
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 10, 2023 22:53:47 GMT -5
Yes my friend ,Yes! Do proceed forward, and enjoy, savoring these moments, like a new beginning! Your mind must be all over the place? I know I went through that with my new woman after my divorce.... Questions like, "can this be true?" "is this going to last?" "I can't believe what this does for my confidence! I feel giddy like a kid again!" Then would come fear., and doubt..."guard your heart", "you've already been too open and given too much... make sure you take back" "what if I'm not good enough?" So I have to ask if you were able to manage those fears and doubts. Do you still have these insecurities? Thanks for the question, it's hard to put that in one sentence. Yes it was true! Yes it did last ( for a year - then a minor set back- her insecurities with fear of commitment- then right back to normal for another full year) It did wonders for my confidence, and hers too hopefully! I learned, it's okay to take back. Ask and you shall receive. Don 't just assume your partner "is supposed to know these things" be vocal about it. Overcome your fear to be bolder and take a risk by asking and doing to get your way more often. It can bee a win, win for both parties involved. I am good enough! ( so are you!!) AND... by showing, proving that you are good enough , you are setting an example for your spouse that they too are 'good enough' - and can also ask for the things they want, need,expect, and desire! ( all part of setting and enforcing boundaries) Do I still have these insecurities?A profound YES! The thoughts tend to overwhelm me.... it takes time. Some days it's one step forward and two steps back. Other days it's 3 steps forward. Kind of a hit and miss. Even more complicated as I continue to meet and socialize with different women. ( be patient- but just how much?) ( How much compromise is too much?) The other night my dance instructor was showing us how to do a certain dance move and she said " you see these 10 ladies here ? Everyone of them is a book. All a different book, one is a novel, one is a documentary, one is a murder mystery, one is an encyclopedia, one is a romance, they're all different! Here ,I'll lead the same step with each of these ladies and watch what happens." One ended up way off to the side. The next ended up directly in front of her. One women did 2 spins instead of one! All with the same lead, ended up a little different. She then said " you have to compensate. Catch up to them, take shorter steps, leave out a few steps, start over, extend your arm further, turn faster,etc...
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 11, 2023 7:14:41 GMT -5
I learned, it's okay to take back. Ask and you shall receive. Don 't just assume your partner "is supposed to know these things" be vocal about it. Overcome your fear to be bolder and take a risk by asking and doing to get your way more often. It can bee a win, win for both parties involved.
..., you are setting an example for your spouse that they too are 'good enough' - and can also ask for the things they want, need,expect, and desire! ( all part of setting and enforcing boundaries) Discussions here at ILIASM about the phrase "Happy wife, happy life" reinforce your advice. Some of the worst months of our marriage were the months where before my wife's clinical depression was medicated and I was at wits end trying to hring her contentment. That is the most stark contrast to that old saw. I could move heaven and earth and she'd still be upset with me. Not her fault, not mine either, but my efforts were futile and making someone else's happiness a basis for your own must have limits. Co-dependency is a dynamic where looking out for a partner's interests crowds out any of your own. Having demolished your own identity, fulfilling your partner is all that can uplift you. If that partner is upset, the extra attention and constant presence can spin things in a toxic direction. Your living for them can even produce contempt. "He/she has no life." Doting on a partner in the dating process may even have been responsible for their decision to go long term with you. A co-dependent personality seems thoughtful, generous and loving at first, smothering, disturbing and pathetic if the relationship gets bumped off course. Advice at ILIASM to prepare for divorce or to stay and cope has much overlap. Look up old friends, make new ones at social events or collective hobbies with groups (e.g. meetup.com), get a second job, etc. This allows the beloved partner to have some alone time, to breathe, to have a chance to miss you, to appreciate some little things that don't just happen by themselves anymore, to perhaps follow your example and expand their own limited life. A co-dependent person is a dependent person and that look may stop being attractive over time. Becoming independent and adopting interesting outside interests can break the curse. Preparing for a breakup may help preserve it instead. Your advice to take what a partner offers may also break the smothering dynamic, but if co-dependency has lasted a long time, your need for them to be happy can become an interpretation as you having become the needy one. Accepting devotion rather than giving it. The perception may be of a reversed co-dpendency, rather than a repaired one. As the devoted spouse, a "provider" spouse may be needing approval of their efforts from their spouse. This neediness may be compounded by a need for gestures of the approval they've conditioned themselves not to give. To expect them to level up their approval deepens co-dependency and counterproductive actions from the recipient of service form the "provider". Being mindful of the necessity of both give and take from the start of a relationship will prevent the provider/recipient co-dependent dynamic and perhaps a way to prevent its resumption if a co-dependent couple reunites to a greater degree after an emotional healing period of separation. Or, I'm wrong.
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