m76
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Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 28, 2024 14:47:59 GMT -5
I had a quick talk today about the trip...it turned into something much longer then expected.
I said I don't want to go on the trip because of the cost but I also told her I don't want to end up frustrated.
That became me being too focused on sex and putting too much pressure on her. She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her.
I've tried explaining again how important physical intimacy is but maybe it really is different for men and women?
She's then asked if I'm looking for a way out....
I backed out again and said it's my hope that we can get to a more comfortable level of intimacy. That's pretty much how we ended.
It's so God damn hard to say I want out. Because I don't really, I want more..from her.
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Post by deadzone75 on Feb 28, 2024 15:14:51 GMT -5
I had a quick talk today about the trip...it turned into something much longer then expected. I said I don't want to go on the trip because of the cost but I also told her I don't want to end up frustrated. That became me being too focused on sex and putting too much pressure on her. She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her. I've tried explaining again how important physical intimacy is but maybe it really is different for men and women? She's then asked if I'm looking for a way out.... I backed out again and said it's my hope that we can get to a more comfortable level of intimacy. That's pretty much how we ended. It's so God damn hard to say I want out. Because I don't really, I want more..from her. At the very least, I hope you do not attend one more counseling session with that woman. It's obviously "too much pressure" and "devalues" her. She just told you exactly what she thinks of it. |
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Post by aquacat on Feb 28, 2024 15:16:47 GMT -5
Your wife sounds exactly like how mine responds to me when we have the talk.... I've been told that I put too much pressure on her and when I want to spend time with her it's just for sex whereas she would rather have non-sexual touching.
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 28, 2024 15:19:31 GMT -5
Your wife sounds exactly like how mine responds to me when we have the talk.... I've been told that I put too much pressure on her and when I want to spend time with her it's just for sex whereas she would rather have non-sexual touching. If there's no pressure, I feel that she'll just remain comfortable with things as is, which won't work for me. |
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Post by isthisit on Feb 28, 2024 19:09:45 GMT -5
I had a quick talk today about the trip...it turned into something much longer then expected. I said I don't want to go on the trip because of the cost but I also told her I don't want to end up frustrated. That became me being too focused on sex and putting too much pressure on her. She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her. I've tried explaining again how important physical intimacy is but maybe it really is different for men and women? She's then asked if I'm looking for a way out.... I backed out again and said it's my hope that we can get to a more comfortable level of intimacy. That's pretty much how we ended. It's so God damn hard to say I want out. Because I don't really, I want more..from her. Gosh, this resonated for me. I remember being in exactly this spot. Wanting to leave what I had, but still carrying a torch for what once was. Hope was not yet, quite, fully, irrevocably … extinguished. Then one day I realised that it felt different. I reached my tipping point when I was least expecting it. Suddenly, I hoped for a H-free future rather than for him to return to the H I married and loved so passionately. I realised that I disliked his company and I had had enough of trying desperately to love someone who was emotionally unavailable to me. Don’t worry about backing out of your opportunity, you might not be quite there. When you’re ready, there will be other opportunities. For me, after that tipping point it became possible to say the words. About your wife’s responses, well, it is rarely fruitful to start arguing the toss with such an ego-centric person. She is not willing to listen. Whatever you say will be turned back to make her the victim and you the barbarian. You’re wasting your time trying to reason with her and I suspect you know it. But for the record, you’re “too focused on sex” who gets to say what is enough, not enough or too much focus on sex? Where is the yardstick? Sex and intimacy is a reasonable expectation in a marriage. That is, any degree of sex and intimacy, let alone before we need to get the yardstick out. Also, she feels “devalued” that you want sex with her when you spend time together? What about you feeling devalued as a result of her choice to disengage from intimacy which is a reasonable expectation in a marriage? Does that count for anything? If I were in your shoes, I would be repeating the phrase “sex and intimacy is a reasonable expectation in a marriage” like a damn parrot to alert her to the fact that your wishes are not excessive and not negotiable. She is gaslighting you into questioning the validity of what you want and what you feel. Your wishes are normal and healthy and reasonable. Oh, and Ireland is divine by the way, just go with someone else. And take an umbrella. It isn’t green for nowt. |
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Post by toughtiger on Feb 28, 2024 19:27:08 GMT -5
I nearly 100% sure I'm past the point of no return but the conversation will happen before actually serving papers so feels more like a divorce is imminent then happening. Last night I talked about how disappointed I was when she canceled our date last week to scroll on her phone. She just said she was tired but got her second wind after I went to sleep. *wtf Now I'm running into the cost of procrastinating.. This morning my wife started talking about going on a romantic trip to Irleand for our 25th anniversary. I have zero interest in doing this trip with our intimacy the way it currently is. It seems like despite everything we've talked about she still thinks everything is fine with us. I'll look at the crafting the talk post today, because I think that conversation needs to happen sooner then later. I wish i could ask if you were Kidding ........but i KNOW the feeling that they think all is great and they think we would want to go on a "romantic" trip with them...... I used to think no one could be that unaware...... but this site has proved me wrong..lol It is not normal / it is not OK and it is not a marriage. I find it very sad some women think it is pressure to do something like it is a chore .... if they knew women like me are out there and would love to have a man who wanted sex....maybe they would realize what they have. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 28, 2024 20:34:20 GMT -5
... She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her. I've tried explaining again how important physical intimacy is but maybe it really is different for men and women? She's then asked if I'm looking for a way out.... It's so God damn hard to say I want out. Because I don't really, I want more from her. "I don't want out. I am out. I'm trying to get back in. I know you're in there, but you changed the locks and pulled the curtains shut. How long am I expected to pretend I'm welcome before I walk away?"
Just checking on the mistress angle. If you were to take a lover and you were to devalue her, would that not be a great service to your marriage? Why is it most wives demand their husbands do this degrading thing only to them? Does sex devalue the husband too? Is sex itself devaluing to all participants? Do lesbian partners spiral a Charybdis of subjugation? Do gay men ascend, or also plummet? If sex elevates the husband, it should be a net benefit to marriage for every husband to have celibate wives and mistresses to degrade. Yet, that doesn't seem to be the public sentiment. So it must be that sex itself is bad for everyone and refused spouses are ever clutching and striving for greater folly while those wise enough to be celibate are the evolved among us, the paragon of humanity; like the United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing. |
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 28, 2024 23:03:47 GMT -5
I had a quick talk today about the trip...it turned into something much longer then expected. I said I don't want to go on the trip because of the cost but I also told her I don't want to end up frustrated. That became me being too focused on sex and putting too much pressure on her. She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her. "I don't want to spend time with you when there is *zero* chance of sex."
Don't drag me through a doughnut shop when I'm on a diet. What's hard to understand about that?
DC
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 28, 2024 23:47:16 GMT -5
aquacat: "Just curious how debt distribution works in a divorce? I know each state is different if you're in the US."
I divorced in Florida almost 11 years ago. It was a community property state and normally, each partner would be responsible for 50% of the debt including debt on individual credit cards before they were frozen (not sure if that's the right term) as part of the divorce proceedings. By "frozen," I mean the amount of debt that existed during a specific point in the divorce proceedings. One could still use their individual cards, but the new debt wouldn't be split between the spouses.
Do talk to a lawyer.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 29, 2024 0:15:45 GMT -5
I had a quick talk today about the trip...it turned into something much longer then expected. I said I don't want to go on the trip because of the cost but I also told her I don't want to end up frustrated. That became me being too focused on sex and putting too much pressure on her. She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her. I've tried explaining again how important physical intimacy is but maybe it really is different for men and women? She's then asked if I'm looking for a way out.... I backed out again and said it's my hope that we can get to a more comfortable level of intimacy. That's pretty much how we ended. It's so God damn hard to say I want out. Because I don't really, I want more..from her. But she can't or won't give you more. What you're experiencing isn't a difference between men and women but a difference between you and your wife. I am 72 and like and expect regular sexual intimacy from my post SM partner of almost 11 years. When we go on vacation, we both see it as an opportunity for more intimacy and more special intimacy. This is the way we both are wired. My refuser husband wasn't wired this way. I was married to him for 34 years, the last 8 years of which were completely sexless. There also were years in which we had sex only once a year or had 3-5 years of having completely no sex. If i'd found ILIASM or its precursor site while married instead of a week after my divorce, I would have learned from the myriad of experiences here that my sexual expectations were normal and my husband and I were sexually incompatible and that wasn't something I could change. |
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Missingout
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Posts: 244
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on Feb 29, 2024 3:24:13 GMT -5
I had a quick talk today about the trip...it turned into something much longer then expected. I said I don't want to go on the trip because of the cost but I also told her I don't want to end up frustrated. That became me being too focused on sex and putting too much pressure on her. She also said she feels like I don't want to spend time with her unless there's sex which devalues her. "I don't want to spend time with you when there is *zero* chance of sex."
Don't drag me through a doughnut shop when I'm on a diet. What's hard to understand about that?
DC
My wife is shutting down all together with going out to dinner getaways with just us and tries to have kids or dogs in the way at all times to avoid sex with me. Last night I layed a good passionate kiss on her and said let’s go get naked. Kids were gone. She tells me that I haven’t made coffee for her the last few weeks. It’s been more like last few months. Anyways guess who won’t have coffee ready I. The morning Jen they wake up. |
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Post by aquacat on Feb 29, 2024 3:39:02 GMT -5
The “romantic getaway” idea won’t pan out most likely. We tried this a few years ago for our anniversary and did a weekend getaway to a romantic bed and breakfast. There was a jacuzzi in the bathroom that could easily fit two people. I had to beg her to do that with me and when I finally convinced her to join me there, the entire time it was just us talking and nothing sexual. I had to nearly beg for sex and it was just a quick one time thing that entire weekend. She sees those kinds of trips like anything else and that is to hang out like friends and enjoy the sights.
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Missingout
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Posts: 244
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on Feb 29, 2024 3:53:09 GMT -5
Sorry about the spelling errors in previous post. It’s early..on our 20 year anniversary trip we had sex one time after I begged for it. I’m an idiot. And the rest of the week was just dinner and sightseeing. That’s when I began to open my eyes and see she has never initiated sex with me. I started to pull back on the begging and see where things went. She quit her job of 25 years and blew through all her pension and 401k the following 2 years. So now it’s more than the sex and she doesn’t want to be part of this team any longer. She’s always been bad with her finances and I have always busted my ass to bail her out. I’m done and hope by June July to be apart of a different team.
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 29, 2024 6:39:06 GMT -5
I nearly 100% sure I'm past the point of no return but the conversation will happen before actually serving papers so feels more like a divorce is imminent then happening. Last night I talked about how disappointed I was when she canceled our date last week to scroll on her phone. She just said she was tired but got her second wind after I went to sleep. *wtf Now I'm running into the cost of procrastinating.. This morning my wife started talking about going on a romantic trip to Irleand for our 25th anniversary. I have zero interest in doing this trip with our intimacy the way it currently is. It seems like despite everything we've talked about she still thinks everything is fine with us. I'll look at the crafting the talk post today, because I think that conversation needs to happen sooner then later. I wish i could ask if you were Kidding ........but i KNOW the feeling that they think all is great and they think we would want to go on a "romantic" trip with them...... I used to think no one could be that unaware...... but this site has proved me wrong..lol It is not normal / it is not OK and it is not a marriage. I find it very sad some women think it is pressure to do something like it is a chore .... if they knew women like me are out there and would love to have a man who wanted sex....maybe they would realize what they have. I don't think I'm wrong that if we can't work on intimacy at home we probably can't work on it in irleand. If it's a chore to kiss me here it'll be a chore there too. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 29, 2024 7:08:00 GMT -5
"I don't want to spend time with you when there is *zero* chance of sex."
Don't drag me through a doughnut shop when I'm on a diet. What's hard to understand about that?
DC
My wife is shutting down all together with going out to dinner getaways with just us and tries to have kids or dogs in the way at all times to avoid sex with me. Last night I laid a good passionate kiss on her and said let’s go get naked. Kids were gone. She tells me that I haven’t made coffee for her the last few weeks. It’s been more like last few months. Anyways guess who won’t have coffee ready I. The morning Jen they wake up. I worry such tit-for-tat encourages a contentious divorce process that hands over large portions of assets or racks up debt to lawyers by each spouse arguing about every little detail because of an abundance of accumulated ill will. Such building antipathy may also be weaponized by a spouse to foster alienation of kids. Being visibly courteous and generous to a spouse should undermine any such efforts. You may wish to treat your wife as the roommate you wish you had if you were to move out. If she responds in kind, in platonic ways, that's a win and serves important long term goals. Have you seen a lawyer yet? You don' have to file to benefit from the information. Planning an exit? (social life, new place to live, distractions, budgeting, etc.)? Treating her well as you lay this groundwork should allow everything to be ready at the same time. Cordial relationship with the Mrs. and a busy, occupying life that would welcome a new partner without needing one in a hurry. |
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