lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 93 
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 13, 2021 3:48:15 GMT -5
My situation: We are in our eighth year of marriage, our 4th or 5th year of sexless marriage.
When I say sexless ,I mean sexless. Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing. No kisses, cuddles and very few embraces.
This is the exact opposite of the pattern our sex lives had when we were dating and newly married ( 1st 2 years a or so) .
Back then it was good, frequent , healthy and robust.
The change is mind boggling and has caused me great emotional grief. I mourn for what we had that seemed to just disappear.
My first clue that all was not well was the times when sex became. ( on his part) very perfunctorily preformed…you know. just going through the motions, no passion.
I am, at 53 years young unable to imagine this state, devoid of passion for the rest of my life.
I haven’t strayed, nor do I want a divorce, necessarily, but I do want to re-kindle what we once had.
We see a therapist/marriage counselor ( we saw him briefly before we married also) .
My husband once claimed that his lack of desire was due to my weight gain . When we married I was about 127 lbs.…I gradually crept up to about 160.
When I dropped the weight this still made no difference, as he either didn’t notice or just refrained from commenting.
I told him I loved him the other day, to which he replied “ thank you” .
When I agreed to " for better or worse” I could not have , in my wildest dreams, imagined that sex ( or lack of it) would be the “ worse”.
I’d like to convey my relief upon finding this forum and knowing I’m not as alone as I feel.
Thanks…
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 13, 2021 5:38:10 GMT -5
I don't know how alone you feel, but looking around here should disperse that notion nicely. Still, if you can't share it with actual flesh and blood people, it can be trying. A lot of folks around here seek a therapist to go over the confusion, possible options, and coping skills. My. The "Thank you" bit is jarring. All physical expressions lacking, we've seen, but it's unusual. Tough case. Very sorry to hear it. Congrats on the weight loss. That's no easy thing. I hope you're pleased with it since it doesn't seem to matter much to him. Weight control has benefits other than physical attraction, so best wishes for steady health for you. This seems like push off behavior, especially the "Thank you." You haven't strayed. Has he? You're 53. How old is your fella? Any health conditions or medications starting around 5 years ago? No doubt you've brought up your 5 year drought. Does he agree it's an issue? Many refusers expected this to be their future, oddly. This is all according to plan. On the topic of straying. That elicits visions of wandering away from a path carelessly, by accident, or by distraction. Finding physical validation elsewhere can also be a deliberate choice of a path at a fork in the road. jerri took that route and hearing her story may perk some interest. It's not most folks' "in the shadows" strategy. baza, who replied to you over in "Welcome", will wisely speak of legal consultation early to know in advance of what may be ahead. Checking with a lawyer is often free of charge, and doesn't mean you have to do anything with the knowledge. |
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 13, 2021 6:56:33 GMT -5
I am not aware of his having gone outside the marriage for sex. That having been said, however there was an indiscretion ( single incident, paid) during our engagement which he vehemently and repeatedly denied until I told him I knew and had the solid proof. I seriously considered calling the whole thing off then, but we pursued counseling and I thought it was resolved and forgiven. My mind goes back there sometimes , now that the sex life in our marriage has dried up.
My husband is 13 years my senior and getting ready for retirement. Other than a non-malignant tumor removed from the kidney ( success!) there were no real medical issues to speak of. a touch of COPD ( has an inhaler, former smoker) but never complains of shortness of breath. He does complain about aches and pains ( my leg/hip hurts) and complains of frequently being tired. He is active with training his dog for AKC trials and does this frequently, ( 2 weeknights, plus frequent weekends) so really his dog is his passion, not his wife.
I love our dog, just not the same way he does. He calls her his "baby' etc....
It feels bad to hear, because that's what he used to call me ( my angel, my baby etc..) .
So glad to be here, I'm really very open to learning and giving this my all. He seems to be more hesitant to talk about it, whereas I'm not that shy, nor do I embarrass easily. I think he is good at avoidance. I do hear him say little digs at me under his breath and when I confront this behavior he flat out denies having said anything. That in and of itself is very frustrating. It reminds me of what I did as a teenager when ticked off at my parents.
Knowing that there is no one-size-fits all solution and there are alternatives that perhaps we can live with ( or without) is comforting. And at this point I'm so starved for affection, any comfort or validation is just so uplifting for me. Thanks for spreading some hope.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 13, 2021 7:05:20 GMT -5
To me, it sounds like your husband is trying to get you to file for divorce because he doesn't want to be perceived as the bad guy. That's what my now ex did. The last 8 years of our sexless marriage were completely sexless. Therapy didn't help. He would arrive late and wouldn't talk about anything important. WHen I tried to talk about our lack of sex, he'd shut down. He also wouldn't talk to me about anything involving any kind of intimacy: he'd just talk at me about things I had no interest in. He would do that as if he was trying to keep me from being intimate.
I moved out of our bedroom after he walked in once when I was changing clothes. He said, "Excuse me," and walked out like I was a roommate he'd accidentally seen naked. I strongly suggest that you consult with a lawyer to find out what your rights would be in case of a divorce. The first visit may even be free. Even if you don't plan to divorce, your husband seems to have a foot out the door. BTW, when I finally decided to divorce, it ended up my husband had had an affair and -- at age 60--thought he'd fathered a child.
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 13, 2021 7:30:09 GMT -5
You know, northstarmom, I have also often wondered if that were the case: that he was trying his darndest to get me to leave, separate or file for divorce .
Thank you for sharing that. If he is having an affair, at least I know that he's had a vasectomy, so no more children will be created. Small comfort. I just don't understand the affair mentality. Why would you want to hide that and /or not be with the person 100% ? I guess there could be all kinds of reasons, but if I am no longer what he wants at home, it seems like he could just say so and file himself.
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 13, 2021 7:58:37 GMT -5
I replied to you initially in the welcome theme. As I read your posts I see what is called "why chasing". Almost everyone here has done it. Who doesn't want to know why what should have been a good thing somehow went all to hell? Mostly the why chasing has resulted in little gain, via information of changed behavior. The same with joint counseling, sorry to say.
I agree with mirrororchid in that he seems to be pushing you away quite deliberately. His reasons are any bodies guess at this point. If you have eliminated possible medical reasons for his lost libido then you are dealing with possible psychological or emotional issues, a much more involved and elusive target to run down. Keep posting and hopefully you will find something useful as you go forward.
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 13, 2021 8:35:11 GMT -5
Thanks worksforme2, I cannot deny my wanting to know the "why" of it. It had taken me so very long to find what I was sure was my match, sexually and spiritually and otherwise on the compatibility scale that this really had knocked the wind out of my sails , so to speak.
At least I can still explore the medical reasons, if he is willing. I'm not trying to kid myself here. Just look at it for what it is, and deal with it accordingly, in a way that causes no further harm or detriment ( if that's doable) .
Believe you me, I feel that almost daily. Oddly things have been a smidgen better between us in regards to just being nice and civil on a daily basis. I do the cooking and cleaning, he works and plays with his dog. Sometimes we watch a show together or engage in other recreation.
It isn't easy to keep up what feels like a farce, but I'm no slouch either.
Thing is, worksforme2, is that hubby has a BA in psychology ( his minor) .
Doing more reading on the Welcome Forum, we have been through numbers 1, 2 and 3 on the "WHY chasing" write-up with those exact results ( lack of desired result, no pun intended) and I think I may be ( consciously or sub-consciously) working on the "funeral plan". Gosh that sounds wretched.
Reading through the definitions, I would peg him 100%percent as a gaslighter. It isn't fun, that's for certain.
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Post by deadzone75 on Sept 13, 2021 11:40:14 GMT -5
Thanks worksforme2, I cannot deny my wanting to know the "why" of it. I spent a great many years trying to find the "why" of my SM. It was equally futile trying to find the magic button that would reignite the...well, ignite the flames of passion. The only "why" that I look for now was why I wasted 16 years trying to solve a riddle that was no riddle at all. |
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 13, 2021 13:26:31 GMT -5
deadzone said: "The only "why" that I look for now was why I wasted 16 years trying to solve a riddle that was no riddle at all."
Yes, the most important thing I learned was to examine why I chose to stay so long in a situation that was miserable. I was able to divorce after realizing that I am entitled to have the kind of love I want. For me,I could leave when I felt it would be better being single forever than remaining in a marriage that didn't provide the kind of love I wanted.
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Post by petrushka on Sept 13, 2021 16:12:39 GMT -5
Hey lanie , well one thing that happened is that you made it past the 2-3 year threshold. I've seen research that around that time in a relationship the euphoric 'in-love' hormones subside in [most] people. Doesn't seem to pan out like that for everybody, but apparently it's a thing. Some of us are more passionate than others ..... and many folk just fall into the grey everyday trap of taking the other for granted. {sigh} My wife dropped out after 3 years, as it happens. Although (don't laugh) I've never put it into this particular context. It coincided with a hip replacement, and she never came back into a sexual relationship, but things were actually much worse, she was terrified of passion, intimacy, affection (giving and receiving) due to a really screwy upbringing ... then became abusive to fend me off. Well, all that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that when I told her I was just the janitor, changing tap washers and lightbulbs, and I was desperately sad and lonely and didn't get my wants or needs met in the relationship: I was done! She took note and began to make an effort at change .... or I would have walked away. There is no point in staying with someone who is abusive and doesn't do anything for you, doesn't even make an attempt. 18 years on, and we're still together. I am much happier with lots of affection and lack of abuse - but I can still see her demons come out from time to time. And there is still no sex, nor will there be. Small consolation that my body is beginning to get 'past it'. The only other thing I can say is: if your DH is muttering imprecations under his breath, then he's not respecting you, and he's probably over the limit of abuse. If he's at all interested in retaining you as a cook and bottle washer, confronting him directly may work - if you make it clear that you're serious, but if he's a gaslighter as you say, that will get you nowhere fast. |
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Post by baza on Sept 14, 2021 1:37:12 GMT -5
My suggestion is really geared toward you making the best possible use of your time whilst this plays out Sister lanieAs it plays out and you explore all your options, you can - concurrently - be consulting a lawyer in your jurisdiction to see how a divorce would theoretically shake out for you. And within those parameters you could be developing a theoretical exit strategy. Additionally you could be shoring up your support network just in case the "theory" needs to be put into action. In other words, get yourself prepared for what might be to come. And "yes", you are allowed to hope that it doesn't come to that. Time is not your friend in these ILIASM situations. |
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 14, 2021 5:03:10 GMT -5
deadzone- "The only "why" that I look for now was why I wasted 16 years trying to solve a riddle that was no riddle at all." I can see where this invested time, to no avail looks very different from the other side of the coin. Kudos for having had the fortitude to stick it out for that long.
northstarmom Thank you. You packed some pretty powerful words/thoughts in very succinctly. I appreciate the support. We DO deserve the kind /type of love that we want/need/crave. It feels like suffocating or to put it another way, I feel that loving is as necessary as food and water for us humans.
Petrushlka : You also put some words of hope in there. Thank you. I feel a bit better, and consequently more able to deal with this "situation" just because I know you folks here on the board are going through it/have been there, done that, so to speak. Thanks~!
baza: Your suggestions put the reigns and the responsibility for my own happiness, squarely back into my own hands. I like that. As in "No siree Bob, not going to be your little victim, Mr. Husbro. " Thank you .
A bit more about us; It is my husbands second marriage, he was previously married for 24 years and 2 years out of it when we met. It is my first marriage, and as such, I was ( maybe am still) in the "no divorces" camp although I can see where it would behoove me to perhaps be a bit more open minded about the reality of that possibility.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 14, 2021 6:06:24 GMT -5
deadzone- ... Kudos for having had the fortitude to stick it out for that long. northstarmom ... We DO deserve the kind /type of love that we want/need/crave. It feels like suffocating or to put it another way, I feel that loving is as necessary as food and water for us humans. baza: Your suggestions put the reigns and the responsibility for my own happiness, squarely back into my own hands. I like that. As in "No siree Bob, not going to be your little victim, Mr. Husbro. " ..., I was ( maybe am still) in the "no divorces" camp although I can see where it would behoove me to perhaps be a bit more open minded about the reality of that possibility. Kudos is an odd thing we express for longsuffering. The admiration society offers to lengthy marriage is quite the incentive. It's also an integral part of the trap of a doomed marriage (not to say yours is.) Northstarmom determined the tipping point can be when she is rock solid sure that being single would be better than being married. How much more time was spent in that befuddling reality before she was sure? Was it fortitude that kept her going through her uncertainty? Or self-doubt? Envy of those with easier marriages? Multiple motives can push people to hang on and congratulations for entrapping oneself strike me as unintentionally sadistic. The appeal of encouraging marriage longevity is undeniable and no small part of it is behind my advocacy for polyamory. Why bust up a useful, fully compatible living arrangement with a roommate just because the sex is gone? It was this peculiar idealism that had me bring up jerri 's dynamic from the start. Problem is, your Husbro (where did you see that portmanteau? It's marvelous!) isn't just benign and symbiotic, he is mildly hostile. Attempts to rectify matters or produce an open marriage could result in more aggressive rejection and abuse in order to produce an environment that you need to escape so badly that you are the one to file divorce. (Are there religious elements in play? "Good Christians don't divorce"? Had he mentioned his sentiment about his first divorce? Does he blame his wife and see no fault of his own? (Possible, sure. But if he does take blame, that's healthy, if it exists.) How invested was he for your marriage? I'd wonder whether getting some honesty out of him might be a necessary step to getting direction. "I love you, thank you" suggests not just a lack of love but a lack of desire for it to be there. If you aren't feeling love at the moment, (angry) you may say it as a "I've loved you before, I may love you again, I'm saying what I don't feel right now because loving you was good." It's a gesture of commitment and trying to make things work. Thank you is a declaration of defeat or opposition. Both strike me as signaling immense unilateral effort on your part. If he doesn't want your marriage to work, you not only have to overcome any difficulties, you have to defeat his opposition. Perhaps you want to find out is he willing to work on his interest in working on things? Has he divorced you already, in his heart and/or mind? What might allow him to mentally renew vows, if anything? And before you head off a gaslighter's road, how much should you be ready to change for the sake of the marriage he doesn't want (assuming he doesn't)? Honestly, is he putting space between you hoping you'll file? Will it be an act of love for both of you to file for divorce for him? If he can see a future with you, what would it take? Is it too much to ask? Is there anything you want to change if you plan to make it to the finish-line grave? (e.g. opening the marriage so you can stop asking for intimacy he doesn't want or honesty about what he needs to feel frisky with you) If you had divorce papers written up with your signature and told him you want your marriage to work but the papers are his to hold on to so that he can leave if he doesn't want to stay, what would the reaction be? |
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 14, 2021 7:11:09 GMT -5
Good Morning mirrororchid! Thank you for your honest evaluation and hard -hitting analysis.
No harm meant and perhaps I was too quick to respond without knowing the rest of the respective other posters stories. Kudos was just meant as a recognition of how hard it must have been to endure what was endured, not as a congrats. All in the interpretation, I suppose.
As for the " unintentionally sadistic" part of your comment. Yikes, it wasn't meant that way, nor do I see it that way, even now, after you pointed out what you deem to be my error.
I find it odd that you feel that the ideal of longevity in marriage is a " peculiar idealism". Gee, I always believed it to be the gold standard of marriage. If not, then why don't we just specify a reasonable time period from the beginning ? " I'll marry you for 9 and 3/4 years, and then I'll be moving on with my life without you ". LOL.
Found the "Husbro" terminology on this site , I think it was in the glossary section. It resonated immediately. Although we were married in a church, the religious element is taking a backseat at the moment, at least it hasn't been vocalized by either of us. He takes appropriate responsibility for his part in his divorce from his 1st wife. He was chatting/sexting etc... I do not know if he was unfaithful. I believe he claimed he hadn't been ( or I probably wouldn't have married him).
The effort has felt pretty darned unilateral on my part for some time, but he contributes in other ways. He has vocalized his willingness to work on things to facilitate the survival of the marriage.
You raised some mighty fine points there, and I do appreciate it. It helps so much to be able to look at things from many different angles. The having divorce papers drawn up and presenting them to him, is something that I in no way, shape or form am ready for. Nor his answer. It's a question I'm not ready to ask, but now I know that that's yet another approach. Thank you for formulating the idea.
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 14, 2021 10:31:45 GMT -5
I haven’t strayed, nor do I want a divorce, necessarily, but I do want to re-kindle what we once had. Consider, in your pre-married life, the various relationships in which you lost attraction to a person (for any reason, and with anyone- including people who you were not in a relationship with). With any of them, did you ever come to find them attractive again, once you had found them attractive and then, for whatever reason, lost that attraction? I think at this stage in assessing the situation, a lot of energy is spent on understanding what is happening and then assessing the available options. What is he thinking, you wonder. You might be able to infer it, and the two of you may have some things in common on this topic. As you've laid out, the majority of your marriage has been sexless. What is a marriage? Think about what you BOTH would agree a marriage is - what you both were agreeing to at the wedding. Is it a marriage? Would either of you agree that your lived reality here is what you'd call a marriage? Would he have agreed to this at the wedding if it was, as is, laid out in your vows? Likely not, I'd warrant. So, it's a relationship of a kind, but likely not what you'd agree is a marriage. You don't want a divorce necessarily. If he's not moving on that procedure to formally end your living relationship - then maybe he doesn't want it either. Why is that? Well maybe it's for the same reasons you don't, despite not having what you'd call a marriage. Having a divorce means an end to the format of relationship that you DO have - which has its benefits or that avoids or delays certain things that you both wish to avoid. As for what happened - in my experience with these things, I often find a major event, fight, change - something - that occurs somewhere around the time that sex disappears. It's usually something that isn't resolved, or isn't resolvable, or isn't attended in time - something of such a scale that it changes the way they feel about their partner permanently, or the way they feel about being married - permanently. So the marriage feels like a trap - and sex with their jailor feels like complicity. Both sides are trapped. The benefit of coming to this realization, if it exists and you are both able, is that you can work together to get out of the relationship amicably with the least possible harm. |
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