archived introductions (Oct/Nov/Dec 2016)

I'm 38. 10 years in relationship and 8 of them married to an amazing guy who has no interest in sex since his testosterone level dropped to zero at age 40 after we had child together and he got on cholesterol pills. He takes viagra once a month and makes it happen but it is really just quick and not very sensual and I feel like I make him do it because he expressed he is concerned about putting drugs in his body... We have 1 child together (8 years old) and one from my previous marriage (14). I am kind of cute and recently having hard time trying to not flirt with other men I meet who like me and give me the attention I need. I saw this link in one of the news articles... I understand cheating will only fix my problem for 5 minutes and then probably will make everything more complicated but how do I not act on my natural needs and how do I explain to him that everywhere I go I get attention and I like it... Where do I start? I am a cancer survivor 1.5 year. So shutting down my needs for years possibly caused my cancer too... Not sure where to go from here. Never done any groups like this except my cancer support groups in person which was super helpful

You 'could' get his attention by saying something along these lines.
"I respect your choice to not put foreign substances in your body, and I also respect that I am entitled to a decent sex life. In the interests of mutual respect, I propose to conduct my sex life independent of the marriage. That will respect your position on not putting drugs in to your body, and will also respect my right to a decent sex life. We would probably be best to treat this as a 'don't ask - don't tell' scenario. And, obviously, if you suddenly get the urge to do a bit of rooting, you must feel free to do so outside the marriage too".
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A word of caution however.
Don't say anything that you are not actually prepared to do.

48 year old Brit husband here, veteran of a five year (at least) sexless marriage. We married in 1999, and sex was pretty good though I sometimes felt like I was being used for masturbation rather than it was two people making love. Sex declined, the usual story, till by a major three week holiday in 2008 I wasn't surprised at all when we didn't have sex at all. It's just got worse since then. Shes had a lot of medical and life issues along the way (including gynaecological and a couple of miscarriages) so I held off patiently thinking that when they were resolved, sex would return. it didn't, obviously. Then menopause (she's now 54) and a lupus diagnosis. Sex was at pretty much nothing by now. A couple of years ago my resentment and pain overflowed into the rest of the relationship to the point that The Talk ensued, and it turned out she no longer had any interest in sex with anyone, no libido, no emotional need or connection, effectively asexual. She said she'd interpreted - conveniently - my reticence as not being interested in sex either. I don't altogether buy this but I can see how menopause can hormonally kill libido, and lupus pain and tiredness is always there. I really do sympathise. She's fighting this every day and it's natural sex isn't a priority for her limited energies. It's not painful, it's not pleasurable, she says. Just meh. She's also said she's never had any emotional connection through sex so there's nothing to build on there - it was only ever about physical pleasure and 'being a good wife'.

So we got past her defensiveness and my resentment after a few months and the current situation is that if I initiate she'll go along with sex. Thing is, the sex is five minutes of pull-my-nighty-down-afterwards (not quite starfishing) PIV, available only on Saturday or Sunday mornings about once a month. In theory she's up for more, but in practice,  she's not. And when she's clearly in pain,and knowing she gets no pleasure from sex,and it'll be crap sex anyway, I'm finding it impossible to initiate too.

I take 'in sickness and health' seriously, and anyway I love her, we get on well day to day. other things she does indicate she loves me too. I'm not planning to leave.

So I'm actively planning to step out, and I'm pretty sure it'll be guilt free. I've had a couple of online/phone EAs, and they've done me a world of good. But I really need the real thing.

Sorry for the wall of text, but it's complicated and I wanted to cover all the bases.

Your missus appears to have taken the bit in the vows that goes - "with my body I thee worship" - as merely very approximate guidelines.
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How does she go on the bit about - "forsaking all others" as it regards you potentially going outside the marriage ?
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Usually, sexually avoidant spouses take a position that the bits of the vows that suit them are fine and written in stone.
But the bits of the vows that don't suit them may be freely ignored. Actually, *people* generally do that.
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Anyway, the point is moot.
"I'm not planning to leave" you say. Rather, you are "actively planning to step out"
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Outsourcing your sex life is a highly adventurous choice. Adding a 3rd party into an already dysfunctional situation can produce spectacularly unpredictable results, ranging from divorce (at the hands of a volcanically angry spouse, or if you meet your *soulmate* in your adventures) to continued seething resentment.
It won't do one damn thing about the core problem though, not directly at least.
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Suggestions - if you intend to proceed with this (perfectly valid) choice.
#1 - See a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you, and put together a rudimentary exit strategy, do-able at very short notice.
Keep that in your pocket as a fall back position.
#2 - Assume that, as a novice at the cheating caper, you WILL get caught (unless your missus is incredibly stupid and unobservant)
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In short, cover your arse as far as you reasonably can

@baza

I raised this in a very hypothetical way, in a very hypothetical context. She didn't take it as a threat. I asked her that since she didn't care about sex, how would she feel if I was having sex with someone else. She said she'd feel bad because it would mean she was failing as a wife. Obviously I didn't follow up with 'well you are...'. I don't mind upsetting her if there's no alternative way to get my point over, but at that moment, it just wouldn't have helped.

When couples who are friends have had outsourcing issues, she's been of the 'get over it, it's just sex' persuasion rather than the 'leave him and sue him for everything' position. Clearly when it's closer to home it's not as simple as that, but since she doesn't understand the emotional component of sex, and thinks it's some weird male thing, she won't see it as intrinsically an emotional betrayal.

I could, I suppose, ask her about opening up the relationship. But she wouldn't see the intensity of my need, and she'd feel guilty because there's nothing she can really do about her lack of interest, so it'd just make her feel bad. And once I'd opened that can of worms, I can't close it again.

Obviously this could all be massive rationalisation on my part...

But then nothing else will directly either, from what I can see. What it will do is make me less miserable (I'm extrapolating from my online stuff), and enable me to accept that my relationship with my wife is now entirely nonsexual because my sexual needs will be focussed on my AP, which - again from experience - I can deal with. My marriage is better when I'm getting my sexual needs met somehow than when I'm not. Yes, the morality is grey in terms of honesty, but in terms of everyone's happiness, life is better.

If my relationship with this putative AP gets so intense that an affair isn't enough, then I'll deal with that when it happens, by ending one or other relationship.

I'm aware this sounds calculated and selfish. I've spent the last 10 years putting my needs second to hers, and now I'm in a miserable situation. Enough already.

Not entirely a novice. And my wife isn't stupid but she is incredibly unobservant. Partly, that's just how she is, and partly, chronic pain will make a person very self involved. Without going into detail, the logistics can be arranged fairly easily.

@@smartkat


Yeah, premature old age is what it feels like to me. There are times when her 80something mother seems more active than her, and lupus is incurable, though it can be managed somewhat. But it's inescapable. It's horrible for her and she's doing what she can about it with meds and behaviour, and I'm supporting her as much as I can, but there's inevitable collateral damage quite apart from sex - we don't go out late, or much at all, because she's tired or in pain; we can't always do what we planned; she's too affected by her own pain to be much emotional support to me. Outsourcing is one way I can alleviate some of that effect on me.[/quote]

Menopause sounds scary. We're here for you.

I go/post at tam once in a while. It's helpful to get different perspectives. Hopefully you can find some help or ideas from members here as well.