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Post by saarinista on Jan 31, 2018 19:01:06 GMT -5
I'm posting on an old thread here, but as a pushing 60 feminist who's been one since age 12, someone who's worked in the women's reproductive health field and openly on pro-choice, abortion legality issues-ion other words, a card carrying liberal feminist--I think this #metoo movement is a bit out of hand. I'm actually not totally sure what the goal is.
I FEEL almost like it's about anything from making it easier for women to report legitimate sexual assault and rape cases (absolutely valid goal) and finding ways to show our children how to keep themselves safe from potential abusers, teach them what appropriate boundaries are, and talking more openly about what healthy sexuality is. Unfortunately, I think some women are misusing this movement as a way to play the woman card and absolve themselves of taking responsibility for their own safety. There is a grey area in male female interactions. It's one thing if a guy asks you to have a drink, you say no and no negative repercussions come of it. It's another if you get demoted, or he drags you to his hotel room, etc. IMHO, the first scenario is in no way harassment. The second scenarios of course are harassment.
This whole thing has come up so quickly and attracted so much long pent up rage, I think, that some questionable allegations are being made. Good people are going to get pilloried along with the slightly guilty and the flat out innocent. Perhaps there's no other way to effect needed changes. If that's the case, it's sad, because in my experience, male/female relationships are already fraught.
I've been flamed by young feminists on Twitter for my views and I think they are not in the majority for women. Perhaps I'm just used to sucking up abuse as there was no choice when I was young (I've been harassed at work when young but never reported it) but it takes longer to change hearts and minds than it does to change laws and policies. Let's support each other in negotiating proper boundaries is what I say. Men and women must work together to effect change. Let's above all avoid demonizing all men as cads, potential rapists or abusers, sexists, etc. That will backlash badly, I think.
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Post by petrushka on Jan 31, 2018 22:55:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think some women are misusing this movement as a way to play the woman card and absolve themselves of taking responsibility for their own safety. This whole thing has come up so quickly and attracted so much long pent up rage, I think, that some questionable allegations are being made. Good people are going to get pilloried along with the slightly guilty and the flat out innocent. Perhaps there's no other way to effect needed changes. If that's the case, it's sad, because in my experience, male/female relationships are already fraught. Let's above all avoid demonizing all men as cads, potential rapists or abusers, sexists, etc. That will backlash badly, I think. Sadly - I suspect that some of the "women are misusing this movement" arises out of a need to be recognized as one of the 'me too' gang, of wanting to belong. And showing off. Never mind the collateral damage. Say what you want, a lot of people are herd animals and feel this need to be seen as one of the flock. With something like this, that absolutely horrifies me. (as I have mentioned before - a similar thing happened with the 'recovered memory syndrome' that, often inflamed by ignorant well meaning 'counselors' with an agenda, tore many families to shreds, saddled some men with huge legal bills, ... ). The demonizing is well ingrained by now. Last week I went to a meetup group and the facilitator and one woman member discussed a meditation group that they had been interested in ... and would not go to because the facilitator of that group was a man. "How do I know he's not an axe murderer". Verbatim quote. Funny, it never occurred to me to worry, that the facilitator of this group might be a poisoner ..... guess I am gormlessly naiive. I've seen it in my SiL, in my niece. It paints a pathetic picture of gender relations. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 1, 2018 10:07:47 GMT -5
I am actually kind of glad you brought it up again.
Yesterday I was talking with a staff. She was sitting down in a chair and I was kind of consoling her, telling her to "hang in there" so I went to go touch her shoulder, well she moved a bit and I accidentally touched her side boob - felt the squishiness and all.... lol I was embarrassed and said, oops! We laughed it off.
Then I thought if I was a man, I would be TERRIFIED.
Anger is a great tool to notice injustice. It is not a great tool to fight it.
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Post by h on Feb 1, 2018 11:14:08 GMT -5
I am actually kind of glad you brought it up again. Yesterday I was talking with a staff. She was sitting down in a chair and I was kind of consoling her, telling her to "hang in there" so I went to go touch her shoulder, well she moved a bit and I accidentally touched her side boob - felt the squishiness and all.... lol I was embarrassed and said, oops! We laughed it off. Then I thought if I was a man, I would be TERRIFIED. Anger is a great tool to notice injustice. It is not a great tool to fight it. For that exact reason, I NEVER make physical contact with anyone at work other than a handshake at the start or end of a meeting with my boss and even that is rare occasion. |
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Post by baza on Feb 1, 2018 11:59:45 GMT -5
Anecdote.
I was doing a consultancy gig at the State Gov Education Dept back in 2008.
It was taking inventory of all sorts of shit like computers, lap tops etc. Big Dept, big task.
A lot of it was clambering under desks to get serial numbers etc.
Anyway, I am in the Assistant Managers office one day (a very attractive chick about 40 who I got on with quite well), head under the desk when unbeknown to me she returned to her office.
She grabbed me on the arse.
I startled and banged my head under the desk, opening up a decent cut.
Being a Gov Dep this workplace incident required about 47 incident reports to be done in which I studiously avoided mentioning anything about what had caused me to startle.
She was very thankful.
At Friday night drinks a week or so later she kindly offered me a heady.
God knows just how many office protocols got trampled all over in this incident, but truth be told I thought it all most amusing.
But I can see in retrospect that this could have been quite serious.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 1, 2018 13:19:33 GMT -5
baza, I have to say that the first thing that crossed my mind with your story is that the injury was probably worth it.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 2, 2018 17:11:50 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad I piped up. Sigh.
I wish people could remain calmer. I'm upset enough about my sexless, conflict filled marriage.
I personally think that some of the metoo stuff is a subconscious societal backlash (transference, displaced anger, kick the canine ) from women who feel angry and disenfranchised over recent "political events and results." I get that. I truly do. However, obviously, dumping on men wholesale and broadbrush is not the right way for women (or anyone) to handle any fears and frustrations about the people/party in charge, currently or ever.
Yet it seems many people don't get that. And now that the mob mentality has taken hold, I see people with very minor, marginal grievances lambasting men in general (and even women like me, who call for calm deliberation) on top of those who legitimately brought to light some very REAL problems with sexual abuse when this whole thing started. And relatively good people are now being taken down along with those who truly deserve punishment.
And, as some of the men on this forum have mentioned, the current environment is making them feel hesitant about the most innocent of even accidental touches, let alone totally non-sexual INTENTIONAL touch in the workplace, etc. I don't blame you guys.
I grew up in the Midwest, but having lived in the American South for 20-30 years now, I wonder what will happen to the ubiquitous "sign of the peace" greeting in many churches. For those who don't know, it's where they make announcements before the offering. The clergy/officiant and congregants turn to one another and shake hands and often hug as they say "Peace of Christ be with you" or similar.
Though I didn't grow up in an environment where touchy-feely was common, here in the South and perhaps elsewhere as well, I'm now quite comfortable with hugging in church, pats on the shoulder, etc. I think it's a nice thing, provided it's within obvious boundaries. But will we have to throw all of that out as well? I'm not worried about the church stuff since I haven't been in many many months (churches can be very political and annoying, as well as outright mean, alas.) But if I find a new church, it will be interesting to see how touch is handled there. Just an observation.
But church is not my main sphere of concern. I'm more concerned about everywhere else, though obviously bad touch happens at church too. Sigh.
What shall we blame? Main stream media? Twitter? At least on this forum, we can't blame politicians! And I like that.
Peace out, y'all.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 14, 2018 13:03:59 GMT -5
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