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Post by heathcliff on Apr 23, 2021 10:39:25 GMT -5
heathcliff, Affairs since 2018, interesting post, especially after reading your older posts. It that happened to me, I would transfer all of the affair emails to an account I owned and then print them out and hand the print outs to her. You have enough information to make choices and demand choices from your W.
I don't need these emails to blow up the relationship. I can do that any time I want. I am also not sure there is a lot of moral high ground for me in this either. I think I mention earlier in this thread that I talked to her about trying other people a few years ago. Now she didn't tell me she was going through with it, but I can't exactly pretend to be devastated by something that I said was Ok if she did it.
The part I am struggling with is my own reaction to it. I can't explain why I am sexually aroused by the thought of her with another man, especially this guy. Honestly, I had stopped fantasizing about my wife years ago, until I saw these emails. Now she is all I think about sexually, and we have had sex like twice in the last 6 years. Some of the things she wrote in the emails are so insanely hot that I have masterbated to them many times. Why? Is my reaction a version of Stockholm Syndrome? Have I been a sexual prisoner of hers for so long that now I am turned on by the sexual escapades of my captor? I can't explain why I feel this way.
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Post by Handy on Apr 23, 2021 12:46:23 GMT -5
heathcliff, if I see or hear a woman is getting sexual satisfaction, it turns me on. I think this is something hard wired into some people's brains. There is a "brake - accelerator model" that sort of explains why you or someone else might become aroused that your W is having sex with another man The accelerator is she is sexually excited which gets you excited. The brake is it is another man, which often is repulsive. Which part (brake or accelerator) varies with each individual. Maybe your accelerator is more active than your brake. I am not an expert when it comes to what turns people on or off so maybe my idea fits or maybe it doesn't fit you personally.
My idea about printing out her e-mails wasn't about who is right or wrong. It was about putting all the cards on the table so you both know the score and maybe decide what to do next without tying to hide or ignore what is really going on. Continuing like nothing is happening is like driving on the Nullarbar Plains road, ninety miles of straight road to do the same thing over and over again. Maybe putting all of the cards on the table would introduce a turn in the road. Putting the cards on the table might cause her or you to decide to do something different that would change this masquerade.
we have had sex like twice in the last 6 years. It is this situation that I hope might change for you. Your W has a FWB. What about your sexual needs and desires? How or what do you see happening in 2 to 5 years regarding your sexuality?
Edit to add
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Post by heathcliff on Apr 23, 2021 13:52:00 GMT -5
heathcliff, if I see or hear a woman is getting sexual satisfaction, it turns me on. I think this is something hard wired into some people's brains. There is a "brake - accelerator model" that sort of explains why you or someone else might become aroused that your W is having sex with another man The accelerator is she is sexually excited which gets you excited. The brake is it is another man, which often is repulsive. Which part (brake or accelerator) varies with each individual. Maybe your accelerator is more active than your brake. I am not an expert when it comes to what turns people on or off so maybe my idea fits or maybe it doesn't fit you personally.
My idea about printing out her e-mails wasn't about who is right or wrong. It was about putting all the cards on the table so you both know the score and maybe decide what to do next without tying to hide or ignore what is really going on. Continuing like nothing is happening is like driving on the Nullarbar Plains road, ninety miles of straight road to do the same thing over and over again. Maybe putting all of the cards on the table would introduce a turn in the road. Putting the cards on the table might cause her or you to decide to do something different that would change this masquerade.
we have had sex like twice in the last 6 years. It is this situation that I hope might change for you. Your W has a FWB. What about your sexual needs and desires? How or what do you see happening in 2 to 5 years regarding your sexuality?
Edit to add
I don't think a full catharsis is a good idea for either of us. I think part of the reason I have not said anything is that I don't even know what I want out of this, but I do know that once "I lay my cards on the table", there is no turning back. I am not ready for that. A shrink would have a field day with me.
Before I found out about this affair, I had become indifferent to her sexually, and had been for a while. I didn't check her out at the beach or watch her change or check her out when she came out of the shower, I just didn't think about her as a sexual being any more. She was a roommate. I would flirt with other women, and had for years. I came close to cheating on her once but the other woman was needy and I didn't want to deal with that in an affair. The last two times wife and I had sex were bad, and I stopped the second time because it was just lame. I figured that was it. She didn't want sex, and I no longer wanted sex with her.
Then I saw the emails. This guy is like a stereotype of the middle-aged ex-jock who peaked in high school. He still plays in the men's rec leagues for softball and basketball and is competitive about it, has a belly, is a loud mouth, drinks too much, and is generally kind of a jackass. He has a reputation with the ladies, which I didn't understand. Reading the emails, my wife is literally nothing more than a sex object for him. The stuff he says to her and the things he does with her are degrading, and she loves it. I am not capable of treating her that way, and I know she wouldn't like it if I did. But she can't get enough of him. Maybe I am turned on by the fact that he is degrading her like this. I don't know.
I do know that I think of sex with her all the time now. I barely even notice other women. And some part of me wants to watch them together, which is totally messed up. Or maybe I just want to cut loose and experiment, and watching her with other men would be a way to experiment. Monogamy clearly didn't work for us, so maybe putting the cards on the table and giving her room to play is the right decision.
I have no idea. It is like she has broken me sexually by withholding sex for all these years. I can't make a decision.
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Post by Handy on Apr 23, 2021 16:34:02 GMT -5
Heathcliff, I don't want to push you in any direction. I think I understand some of the the confused feelings that you have and those feelings and any subsequent actions are yours to determine.
He has a reputation with the ladies, which I didn't understand. I would be in the same boat. The only thing I can understand right now is, maybe people like to have few rules to live by, at least part of the time. Motorcycles going to Sturgis SD come through my area and I have read that Sturgis week is to let their hair down week and the rest of the year they play the CPA, Dentist, PTA mom/dad life. Even my daughter has her "let it all hang lose" moments. I was told if the woman gets enough attention from a man, she will be OK with his "bad boy" traits.
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Post by baza on Apr 23, 2021 20:14:42 GMT -5
Brother heathcliff . Since your May 2019 post it has been suggested that you see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you. Without these facts you are flying blind, and as you say - "(you) can't make a decision". If you were in possession of the facts you could make an objective choice. But without that knowledge it is pretty much impossible to make an objective choice. Getting those facts commits you to precisely nothing. It is just you doing your due diligence and homework so you can make an objective choice about your next move - if any.
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Post by heathcliff on Apr 23, 2021 21:27:57 GMT -5
Heathcliff, I don't want to push you in any direction. I think I understand some of the the confused feelings that you have and those feelings and any subsequent actions are yours to determine. He has a reputation with the ladies, which I didn't understand.I would be in the same boat. The only thing I can understand right now is, maybe people like to have few rules to live by, at least part of the time. Motorcycles going to Sturgis SD come through my area and I have read that Sturgis week is to let their hair down week and the rest of the year they play the CPA, Dentist, PTA mom/dad life. Even my daughter has her "let it all hang lose" moments. I was told if the woman gets enough attention from a man, she will be OK with his "bad boy" traits.
I think she has moved on. This is full blown mid-life crisis behavior by her.
I can't get past a thought I have whenever I remember the emails. He is objectifying her, but she is also objectifying him. She likes the craziness, the primal energy of it. Getting taken from behind over the hood of his car in a bar parking lot or blowing him in a public bathroom kind of stuff. There are a lot of references to great sex and the size of his dick in the emails, but I can not recall a single expression of emotion or affection in her emails to him. She just likes fucking him. It is fun for her, and there are no strings. He is a sex doll for her.
I will make a longer post about this at some point, which I have not organized in my head quite yet, but something struck me a few years ago during the beginning of the MeToo stories. We teach our kids that "no means no" when it comes to sex, always. But that means that no means no even when we are married. She was saying "no" to me. Continuing to ask her and trying to manipulate her and pressure her just made me a creep. No means no. It was around that time that I stopped asking her.
The only thing she ever owed me sexually was honesty, and she was not honest, so I feel used. I was the good provider and father and good corporate husband for her career, and we do share a lot of interests. But she never felt the level of physical passion towards me that she clearly feels for him. A woman wants what a woman wants, but she should have been honest with me, which she wasn't. And now she has cheated on me. I think monogamy is messed up, and I would have let her have sex with him if that was what she really wanted, although the quid pro quo would be that I could see other people too. She decided to do this without telling me, which was incredibly selfish and deceptive. There is more to unpack here at some point, but this really bugs me.
p.s. I do find the idea of watching her have sex with another man incredibly exciting. Maybe 20 years of her refusing has screwed me up sexually.
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Post by heathcliff on Apr 23, 2021 21:40:41 GMT -5
Heathcliff, I don't want to push you in any direction. I think I understand some of the the confused feelings that you have and those feelings and any subsequent actions are yours to determine. He has a reputation with the ladies, which I didn't understand.I would be in the same boat. The only thing I can understand right now is, maybe people like to have few rules to live by, at least part of the time. Motorcycles going to Sturgis SD come through my area and I have read that Sturgis week is to let their hair down week and the rest of the year they play the CPA, Dentist, PTA mom/dad life. Even my daughter has her "let it all hang lose" moments. I was told if the woman gets enough attention from a man, she will be OK with his "bad boy" traits.
Re: the bad boy thing
It has always been that way, at least with GenX and before. Some women like the uber confident bad boy for just sex. I can't pull that off, but the guys who can, get a lot of women. I have friends who act like that, and it is amazing the amount of sex that they have, even into middle age.
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Post by Handy on Apr 23, 2021 23:50:16 GMT -5
Heathcliff She likes the craziness, the primal energy of it.I think that is a very good reason some people like sex so much. some people like to abandon responsibilities and follow someone that has a good "acting in charge" persona. Think about the many religious leaders like Marshall Applewhite of Heaven’s Gate, David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, and Jim Jones of the Peoples Temple. Even Charles Manson had followers. I have seen women go for other men that act like they have everything going for them. I wonder why women follow guys like that and i do not have any answers. I even watched one TV program about a woman/girlfriend that was living with what looked and sounded like a decent guy that earned $150K a year. The GF was meeting a guy that lived behind a dumpster and fucking his brains out because he paid attention to her. Maybe the human soul just likes the illusion of controlling the future. People are not always logical and sometimes act mostly based on emotions.
Baza has the practical advice. Have a visit with a local lawyer to get an idea of what happens no matter what you do among the several options that might come about in the future.
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Post by isthisit on Apr 25, 2021 0:24:50 GMT -5
Re: the bad boy thing
It has always been that way, at least with GenX and before. Some women like the uber confident bad boy for just sex. I can't pull that off, but the guys who can, get a lot of women. I have friends who act like that, and it is amazing the amount of sex that they have, even into middle age.
These women exist sure. But it’s good to remember that for everyone one of those there are at least another dozen with a lot more sense, who wouldn’t touch a bad boy with a shitty stick. Be confident to be yourself. You sound just the cup of tea I hear friends whinging they cannot find. 😊
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 26, 2021 4:42:27 GMT -5
p.s. I do find the idea of watching her have sex with another man incredibly exciting. Maybe 20 years of her refusing has screwed me up sexually.
You're not alone: www.google.com/search?q=caught+cheating+site%3Awww.reddit.com+cuckold+aroused%7Cexcited+confused&biw=1280&bih=817&ei=p4eGYP-HDpq4tQb45ZSIBQ&oq=caught+cheating+site%3Awww.reddit.com+cuckold+aroused%7Cexcited+confused&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQ_qQBWLSCAmCUhAJoAnAAeACAAbsCiAGLHJIBCTEwLjEwLjYuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwi_952bzJvwAhUaXM0KHfgyBVEQ4dUDCA4&uact=5It's not common, but it isn't just you. Question is, what kind of cuckold fantasy is your thing. Compersive? Humiliation? Competitive? A combination? The excitement may be enhanced by her hiding it from you. I've also read that just like a marriage, blazing fires settle over time and all these things that make her hot, when she's utterly dominated will someday grow stale. Possibly evolutionary. Fresh mate...her body/brain is doing everything it can to get pregnant and insane excitement helps. The absence of emotion may be assisting this animal nature. When nothing else is going on, when she doesn't wonder where things are going (because the answer is "nowhere, and that's not going to change", she can be in the moment and focus on pleasure and perhaps have very intense physical sensation? If you're ready to pull the trigger in order to find love on your own, you can serve papers. If she's horrified and doesn't want to lose you, perhaps she'd like to be your hotwife and you won't mind. (Insist on the option to get some on the side someday, if you stay, of course. Juist because you like to watch her cheat, doesn't mean celibacy is mandatory). Doesn't work? Divorce later. She may fall in love one day and leave, but that might happen anyway. Then again, she may understand the value of long term stability with a man tolerant of polyandry and make it to the grave with you.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 26, 2021 12:18:18 GMT -5
"his guy is like a stereotype of the middle-aged ex-jock who peaked in high school. He still plays in the men's rec leagues for softball and basketball and is competitive about it, has a belly, is a loud mouth, drinks too much, and is generally kind of a jackass. He has a reputation with the ladies, which I didn't understand. "
He is confident, aggressive and clearly loves se, and those are a turn-on to many women including women whose husbands passively endure sexless marriages. Whining about the sexlessness of one's marriage is passive endurance. The type of man that your wife likes would ditch a sexless marriage.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Apr 27, 2021 22:39:15 GMT -5
He is confident, aggressive and clearly loves se, and those are a turn-on to many women including women whose husbands passively endure sexless marriages. Whining about the sexlessness of one's marriage is passive endurance. The type of man that your wife likes would ditch a sexless marriage. [/quote]
This is so well stated! Thank you Northstarmom! It's why we do get resets when we leave or are walking out...the passivity/keep the peace BS keeps us here!
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Post by ironhamster on May 2, 2021 5:51:45 GMT -5
Re: the bad boy thing
It has always been that way, at least with GenX and before. Some women like the uber confident bad boy for just sex. I can't pull that off, but the guys who can, get a lot of women. I have friends who act like that, and it is amazing the amount of sex that they have, even into middle age.
These women exist sure. But it’s good to remember that for everyone one of those there are at least another dozen with a lot more sense, who wouldn’t touch a bad boy with a shitty stick. Be confident to be yourself. You sound just the cup of tea I hear friends whinging they cannot find. 😊 The bad boys do seem to be popular among some women. There is the idea that a nicer guy can't be aggressive in bed, so some women really fall for the bad boy, until she comes home to find him passed out on her livingroom carpet because he sold her couch, and that's where he keeps his motorcycle, and his meth lab.
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Post by isthisit on May 2, 2021 14:21:26 GMT -5
These women exist sure. But it’s good to remember that for everyone one of those there are at least another dozen with a lot more sense, who wouldn’t touch a bad boy with a shitty stick. Be confident to be yourself. You sound just the cup of tea I hear friends whinging they cannot find. 😊 The bad boys do seem to be popular among some women. There is the idea that a nicer guy can't be aggressive in bed, so some women really fall for the bad boy, until she comes home to find him passed out on her livingroom carpet because he sold her couch, and that's where he keeps his motorcycle, and his meth lab. I have been thinking about this topic today. I think there is also a parallel with guys who seem to just love ‘bad girls’ too. I’m not talking Amazonian physical specimens of womanhood. But rather women who generally treat men like shit and get better thought of for it. Inexplicable as this sounds, men seem to bend over backwards to please abusive, controlling, entitled, expectant and bone idle women who care little about joy they can bring to their H and only ensuring that they get what they want and only what they want in the M. God knows without thinking too hard I can think of several guys here who tell this story..... for years. I will never understand the attraction of a ‘bad boy’ and most women I know can’t either. Seems just as difficult to understand a man who thinks more of a woman who makes his life a misery. Kindness rocks my world. Shouldn’t it rock everyone’s?
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Post by catlover on May 3, 2021 0:02:45 GMT -5
“I have been thinking about this topic today. I think there is also a parallel with guys who seem to just love ‘bad girls’ too. I’m not talking Amazonian physical specimens of womanhood. But rather women who generally treat men like shit and get better thought of for it.
Inexplicable as this sounds, men seem to bend over backwards to please abusive, controlling, entitled, expectant and bone idle women who care little about joy they can bring to their H and only ensuring that they get what they want and only what they want in the M. God knows without thinking too hard I can think of several guys here who tell this story..... for years. “
Sounds just like my sons ex
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