Ambivalent About Staying, But Not Going Anywhere Sept 22, 2016 5:08:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 5:08:40 GMT -5
I am usually not a leader, it is not my style. I was waiting for someone to continue the thread so I could add my two cents worth. That is not going to happen so I will not let this issue rest the way it has ended. I hate when I feel someone has been unfairly treated, and what has occurred is not fair to our three beautiful women. Because I have not seen a picture of any of them, I am using the word ‘beautiful’ to describe their minds, spirit and their persona.
Some things I say may come across as unwarranted or attacking to some, but I want to be clear; if any of my words are redacted or deleted, I will delete my account.
I will use the analogy of a simple sibling fight to describe for men how I feel about why the women left. Assume any one against one would be an equal and fair fight.
I will begin with Z’s received PM.
Sept 19, 2016 19:40:12 GMT -5 @zumbamami said:
Caveat: this is generally a positive site for women. Unfortunately, women on most chat sites are trolled, stalked, belittled and have to deal with mansplaining.
I will use the "I" pronoun so there is NO speculation about the source of my words. They are mine, and I stand behind them and take full responsibility for them.
Hi I'm Z, one of the women who is about ready to quit this site, permanently. I will share my experiences to give you a little snapshot of what women deal with.
I was a member of ILIASM since the 1st month and I became a benefactor because I thought the site was worth my monetary support. Since its inception this was a great place to spend some time.
We shared, commiserate, laughed, supported, celebrated milestones and mourned losses. Together.
The site became more popular and new folks joined, existing members left, or took a break and returned. EP trolls followed some of us here and sent inappropriate messages and posted vile comments to/about some of us (women).
Throughout that time, I felt like the men were on our team. It was ILIASM men and women against the trolls. Period.
That vibe does not exist anymore.
The vast majority of the members are great people who are here in the spirit of the site - to be with other folks who understand the complexities of living in a SM. If everyone was in that place, I would not be considering leaving.
Sadly, however, there are some men who simply do not like and are intimidated by strong women. They are "irritated " when a woman uses the word "mansplaining" to describe a pattern of discounting or poo-pooing comments by women. www.guernicamag.com/daily/rebecca-solnit-men-explain-things-to-me/
Many of the women on this site work with, around, and/or supervise men. We KNOW how to communicate with men. We do not need men to interpret our comments or thoughts.
Personally speaking, it makes my blood boil to have some milquetoasty, butthurt, woman-hating man (aka. Girl-hating Guy or GG for short) try to "tell" me what I mean or what I'm talking about. Makes me angry AF. Especially, the ones held up as "experts" in SM.
I lurked, saw the same "all women are bad" types of comments, be challenged by women. Then the "you don't understand how I feel" BS comments posted by the GGs - to women who were trying to HELP. SMH
Some people love wallowing in their own pathos, and if that's your bag? Cool. Just don't drag people who are doing the hard work of finding the POSITIVE parts of life into your dark hole. It's exhausting and gets old fast.
This week three AMAZING women left ILIASM - helentishappy, @elle and mountainrunner. These aren't some random, storybook one-in-a-million girls. They are once in a lifetime WOMEN. Like the rest of the women here. We listen to y'all rip other women (usually your refusers) to shreds, make a generalization about "all women" and STILL we try to build y'all up.
In fact the LAST comments those two women made were in support of men in SM. But, you're so poisoned against us, that you couldn't keep from saying something negative to them.
SHAME ON YOU.
Someone needs to say build a bridge and get over it. YOUR anger/sadness/shitstorm of your own making is YOURS. OWN IT.
I'M DONE BEING QUIET.
Sept 20, 2016 17:45:48 GMT -5 @zumbamami said:Honestly, I just read where a man asked that "we" not use the word mansplaining anymore. That is clear enough for me.
I really tried to hold out in hopes this would work itself out. Sadly, it did not and has only stirred up a hornets' nest.
To the person who sent me that vile personal message.
This feminazi is gone.
The last 3 lines. For that responsible person, please have the decency to come forward and proudly give us your message that you were brave enough to send Z personally, but not brave enough to post it for everyone. Surely you want to claim the victory now. Go ahead and mansplain' it to me. Or we can call it noclasschickenshitsplainin' if it suits you better.
A lot of men felt Z’s use of the term “mansplaining” was demeaning to them.
For those that feel this way, please consider me to be “mansplaining” this explanation to you.
I took excerpts from an article entitled ”What is ‘splaining? And why should I care?”
...........‘splainin’ is an “explanation” which is put forward in the most patronizing way possible. The ‘splainer feels passionately that ou opinion and beliefs outweigh actual lived experience and wishes to inform everyone of this fact. ‘splainers are unfortunately especially common in safe spaces in which the voices of people living in marginalized bodies are centered, because such spaces are threatening to people who find our voices contrary to their worldviews.
'splainers feel the need to put their oar in on conversations where they may not specifically be welcome or even wanted, often with an air of entitlement. They approach the conversation from the position that people must be ignorant if they think/experience differently than the ‘splainer does, and that a few rounds in comments will sort them out and bring them over to the side of right. One of the many reasons that this can be harmful is that often people are just starting to come to the place where they feel comfortable asserting their lived experience, because they’ve been taken in by arguments like those presented by the ‘splainer for their whole lives, and seeing those arguments again can set off a spiral of self doubt, confusion, and self loathing.
The ‘splainer not only passionately believes that someone’s lived experiences are wrong, but that they need to be corrected, that there are right and wrong answers when it comes to someone’s life. This often involves an active erasure and denial: “I’m being discriminated against.” “No you’re not!”
I wonder why women grasp this concept far better then men?
If do you not accept I am correct in using the term 'splainin' write back and we will discuss it, because by definition and on purpose I am directly telling you something you should already be well aware of because you have been members here for far longer than I.
The two analogies I will use are simple family fights (1) HelenT and IWFM2 had an argument, a little wrestling ensues, Mountainrunner shoves IWFM2, gets her 2 cents in and defends her sister. 3 days later, Dan hears of the argument and slams Mountainrunner down, saying she was wrong to attack IWFM2. Helen shoves Dan. The father(Moderator) saw the fight and comes outside and says “Stop this at once,, you are out of line and I am ending this now, go to your rooms and I will not hear another word.” HelenT and Mountainrunner feel they are in the right and are being unfairly punished and cannot believe their father would not listen to their side. For three days they stew, Dad listens and decides “OK, go outside and you can continue the fight”. Of course it is too late, HT and MR have already decided to move out because they were treated badly and not for the first time. Fight (2) Z gets picked on by one of her brothers, says she will not put up with it and whoever does not like it step outside 8 brothers go outside. She feels totally unwanted, goes inside only to find a vile note. She decides to follow HT and MR out the door.
Z, please don't let the pig who wrote the PM win.
HT and MR, you are both wonderful and I wish you would reconsider.
Some men here have to learn respect and decency. The moderators do a good job but must come across as impartial. I believe we can all get along if we wish.