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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 26, 2021 13:09:12 GMT -5
Absolutely. I found that it helped me get sleep and was an intermediary step (something prior to the nuclear option) that made gaslighting impossible. I think most importantly, it helped me centre the truth of the nature of my relationship in a very clear way. Living in that for a while allowed some of my fog to clear - a kind of relief of tension in which I was no longer committed to lying to myself or others about the relationship. We no longer had a dance of excuses and tensions regarding bedtime. No drowsy midnight hopefuls sparked from accidental touching. No painful staring matches for a feeling that I was braising in contempt and rejection in my own bed all night. No more "cap in hand" power dynamic. I was trying something different and picked a new lane - I no longer had a sexual expectation in the relationship. That would likely have downstream consequences but they hadn't arrived yet. The ball was firmly served to her court to to establish a clear reason as to why we should sleep in the same bed if we did not have a sexual relationship. It was now her problem to think about. If she preferred it (which she did not), then that would mean something. If she did not prefer it, then it was up to her to present a case to change it. It balanced the books such that the looming threat of separation was now also her problem to think about, rather than mine alone. With that truth in mind, I was more easily able to conceive of the other work I needed to do. I cannot like this enough. The description of the emancipatory benefits of leaving the marital bed is exactly the reason that I would have liked to make this move back in my deal. There is a powerful symbolism of leaving that shared intimate space, a symbolism my H would have absolutely hated as a tangible reminder of the stuff I was telling him but he was so adept at ignoring. I did not move out of our bedroom until we (well I, H chickened out) told the children of our separation. Before this I felt that it would cause them anxiety without the clarity of what was happening to our family. Once I did move out I quickly realised that the sleeplessness I had been experiencing and putting down to any manner of things actually stemmed from the tensions around the sleeping space that was no longer the safe and intimate experience it should be. I now love my bed where I sleep alone. No agenda, no rejection, shame or tension. Rather relaxation, peace and self indulgence. And no snoring! I added the emphasis in this response - it's an important insight. This particular thing is often hidden to both participants in a celibate marriage. You know you don't want to be celibate. You know there is a reason that it is happening this way. Even if you don't know the reason, there is one. And you know the reason is likely based somehow on what he or she thinks of you or the marriage - even if the specifics are hard to pin down. Which means - every time you go to bed with that person, you are getting a velvet rope at the club door. You aren't allowed inside and you don't get to find out why. This is your HOME. Your BED. It should be the safest place - you are going to be unconscious in it for hours, and half naked. And here's this person who thinks you aren't good enough. It totally doesn't feel safe, and it wrecks your peace and sleep to be marinating in that each night when instead you need restful sleep. |
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heelots
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Post by heelots on Oct 26, 2021 15:25:00 GMT -5
heelots Good for you standing up for yourself! You haven't done anything wrong and have no reason to feel guilty. What was her response? Understand, the lack of sex and long dry periods, often 3-6 months at a time that started in the very beginning of our marriage meant that during the entire 23 years of our marriage sex was so infrequent that porn has been used from the beginning of the marriage. She essentially points to that and additionally claims that I looked at dating sites and talked to other women through the years online. To her it does not matter that I never stepped out of the marriage at any point in 23 years all of which she spent rarely ever having sex with me, which due to the in frequency generally felt foreign and forced on her part. It finally got so bad that I honestly no longer asked or cared because I just felt like she was going through the motions and I much preferred seeing to my own needs than feeling like I was getting "pity fucks" from" someone that honestly wanted no part of me. At this point I no longer even have any desire for her. In the last few years once or twice I suggested sex, once she essentially turned me down flat. I probably waited another 3 years before suggesting it again and she did not exactly seem warm to the idea but grudgingly said yes. I could never bring myself to pursue that further because I decided she was just not worth the humiliation I would feel in pushing it further. I think things are just too far gone for me to even want to be with her sexually anymore. I gave up years ago and I think I have just mentally written that part of the marriage off as dead and in fact i just ignore the whole idea of sex with her anymore. I found that once i totally gave up all hope of sex in our marriage and gave up i was able to let go of a lot of the anger that i had been toting around for years, there was no more frustration and hoping a n.v d expectation, it just all evaporated like a fart in the wind. I am much more at peace thse days just tossing off when the need arises. Thankfully, as I am aging my drive is dropping off a bit which is fine with me as it was once a constant irritation that needed tending to. If or when my drive just goes away that will be fine. I welcome that, and always hope for an early demise, though I will do nothing to make that happen. I just pray each night to not see the next day and have for a long time. I figure that must be some sort of punishment I must slog through for only God knows how long. Knowing my luck I will live to 100! LOL |
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Post by isthisit on Oct 26, 2021 15:34:18 GMT -5
I cannot like this enough. The description of the emancipatory benefits of leaving the marital bed is exactly the reason that I would have liked to make this move back in my deal. There is a powerful symbolism of leaving that shared intimate space, a symbolism my H would have absolutely hated as a tangible reminder of the stuff I was telling him but he was so adept at ignoring. I did not move out of our bedroom until we (well I, H chickened out) told the children of our separation. Before this I felt that it would cause them anxiety without the clarity of what was happening to our family. Once I did move out I quickly realised that the sleeplessness I had been experiencing and putting down to any manner of things actually stemmed from the tensions around the sleeping space that was no longer the safe and intimate experience it should be. I now love my bed where I sleep alone. No agenda, no rejection, shame or tension. Rather relaxation, peace and self indulgence. And no snoring! I added the emphasis in this response - it's an important insight. This particular thing is often hidden to both participants in a celibate marriage. You know you don't want to be celibate. You know there is a reason that it is happening this way. Even if you don't know the reason, there is one. And you know the reason is likely based somehow on what he or she thinks of you or the marriage - even if the specifics are hard to pin down. Which means - every time you go to bed with that person, you are getting a velvet rope at the club door. You aren't allowed inside and you don't get to find out why. This is your HOME. Your BED. It should be the safest place - you are going to be unconscious in it for hours, and half naked. And here's this person who thinks you aren't good enough. It totally doesn't feel safe, and it wrecks your peace and sleep to be marinating in that each night when instead you need restful sleep. There is much I agree with here, but the sections I have highlighted are, for me, too much of a generalisation. I don't think that for all of us the sexlessness we have experienced necessarily reflects what our frigid spouses "think of you [us] or the marriage" or that they think that we "aren't good enough". This was not the case in my deal at all. For many here, the sexlessness stems from the refuser's own issues, wholly independent of us. We are simply, and unfortunately, collateral damage. In my case this is not avoidance or denial- H has been very clear. On the odd occasion intimacy crossed his mind he wanted this with me and only me. He did and does see me as attractive as he ever did. The issue was five crap minutes bi-annually just didn't float my boat or anything close to it. |
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Post by isthisit on Oct 26, 2021 15:36:53 GMT -5
heelots, part of your long term problems have been trying to smooths over to try to avoid troubling conflicts. You could have said, those lotion bottles were mine as a substitute for the real sex I wasn't having with you. You might not like sex with me but I am normal, sex is normal and I needed the relief. Before all was said and done, she came back and opened up that can of worms and I told her that by not having a wife that was willing to have sex with me I was left to deal with my natural urges on my own which were not going to simply disappear due to her refusal which left me to either take matters in hand, or step out of the marriage, which was not an option so really, she should probably be happy that I use the restraint that most others in my situation probably would not! I told her most would either choose divorce, or cheating, which I never considered so I was making no apology for seeing to a biological need that she clearly refused to fulfill so just get over it. It was not like I was waving that in her face, but was in fact being private about that and keeping it to myself so she could expect no shame or apology from me for her refusal to be a wife! Bloody marvellous, good for you. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 26, 2021 19:22:20 GMT -5
I'd be curious what she'd say to: "If I were to file divorce, what would you do?" If she wanted you to, would you? Would you release her from her mistake? Foolishly marrying a healthy man, deluding herself that sex just goes away after you get married. I get that you're keeping your promise, but what if the other person wishes you would break it? Would you do so out of mercy? I'd want to die tomorrow too, if I were her and knew I made my spouse feel that way. For that matter, how would you answer if she asked you what you would do if she filed for divorce tomorrow? |
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lanie
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Post by lanie on Oct 26, 2021 23:32:10 GMT -5
said "You know you don't want to be celibate.
You know there is a reason that it is happening this way.
Even if you don't know the reason, there is one.
And you know the reason is likely based somehow on what he or she thinks of you or the marriage - even if the specifics are hard to pin down.
Which means - every time you go to bed with that person, you are getting a velvet rope at the club door. You aren't allowed inside and you don't get to find out why.
This is your HOME. Your BED.
It should be the safest place - you are going to be unconscious in it for hours, and half naked.
And here's this person who thinks you aren't good enough. It totally doesn't feel safe, and it wrecks your peace and sleep to be marinating in that each night when instead you need restful sleep."
My goodness how truly this resonates with me.
As I sit here awake at 12:30 AM I wonder if part of my being so happy to work at night was due to the " velvet rope syndrome". I'd be willing to say yep, that is a big part of my decision to accept those hours. The days off are killers though, to try to maintain that unnatural sleep cycle at home ( he
works days)
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heelots
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Post by heelots on Oct 27, 2021 5:22:42 GMT -5
I'd be curious what she'd say to: "If I were to file divorce, what would you do?" If she wanted you to, would you? Would you release her from her mistake? Foolishly marrying a healthy man, deluding herself that sex just goes away after you get married. I get that you're keeping your promise, but what if the other person wishes you would break it? Would you do so out of mercy? I'd want to die tomorrow too, if I were her and knew I made my spouse feel that way. For that matter, how would you answer if she asked you what you would do if she filed for divorce tomorrow? She isn't the one that wants to die, I am. I am just tired of the xss BS. I would probably be relieved if she filed. |
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heelots
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Post by heelots on Oct 27, 2021 11:51:50 GMT -5
In fairness, I also have some underlying health issues that are chronic, and will not be going away that do work on me too. So between a shitty marriage and some chronic health issues, I am just a bit weary is all. Not severe depression or anything like that, just damned tired of everything ya know.
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Post by Handy on Oct 27, 2021 17:03:42 GMT -5
Heelots
, just damned tired of everything ya know. Heelots, I don't have a middle name so with all of my medical appointments, jabs, blood samples taken, several surgeries and 3 hospital stays, I just invented a middle set of initials. TOB, which stands for "tough old bird." I am not saying that you need to adopt my TOB mentality but it helped me to cope at times. I am also tired but I keep on looking for some things in life that I can sort of enjoy. It is similar to putting one foot in front of the other and living life on the hand we are dealt, until something, anything a little better comes our way that might be an improvement.
I learned to value my life with its flaws regardless of how my W treats me. It took a long time for me to arrive at this place in life. I am not the big screw up, my W has her issues and I can't change her so I quit trying. I now work on what I can change around me without my W's input.
Edit to add:
There is a concept people get validated two ways. One from others and self validation from within. If you depend only on validation from a few other people and they are screwed up, there is little chance that you will get the validation that you need.
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name
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Post by name on Oct 30, 2021 1:43:06 GMT -5
I have been in my own room for 2 years now. There are some really powerful words on here that put perfectly how I feel and why it’s better this way!
I can now sleep without crying at the rejection I feel and it helps me not to expect intimacy but to accept that this is a place I come for rest and nothing more
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 30, 2021 2:27:15 GMT -5
Welcome name,...I can empathize with your feelings. When my X decided to sleep elsewhere it really set in motion the process that eventually led me to start viewing the marriage in a different light. Keep reading and when/if you feel comfortable some day, post a theme about your experience in a SM.
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