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She won
Nov 1, 2022 12:10:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by heelots on Nov 1, 2022 12:10:39 GMT -5
About a month ago I left her, sort of. She ahsin accused me of watching porn on my pjone and contacting escorts, which I had not. So I packed a bag and moved out to a local hotel. It was lovely, lying on a bed reading a sci fi book. I felt empty but in a good way. She texted me to come back. Yhen turned up at the hotel... So I returned home the next day. Things have been sort of better. Still no sex life but she stopped checking my phone..... hopefully I am a bit surprised. I thought yours was more like mine. If I ever moved out hell would freeze over before my wife asked me to return. Hell, mine would probably throw a party!
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 1, 2022 19:22:53 GMT -5
You need to talk to a lawyer and find out how to leave. Just leaving without lawyer's advice is not only probably going to shred your cred but it may get you considered to have deserted her, and that may make her come out way ahead in a divorce.
Given your behavior of returning when she showed up at your hotel (why did you tell her where you are), it seems that what you wanted was for her to beg you to return. Maybe you thought that would mean her behavior toward you would change. As you can see, it has not. You cannot change her. All you can do is change yourself. You can stay with her and continue being resentful and complaining or you can man up and take responsibility for creating the life you want. That means taking steps under your control to create the life you want. Your wife's behavior isn't under your control.
By any chance are you enjoying her "forcing" (quotes are because she can't force you) to be celibate? Otherwise, I can't imagine caving in to a partner's saying one can't even masturbate, especially when that partner is a refuser. What you do with your dick and your hand is your own business.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 2, 2022 9:14:34 GMT -5
I am not enjoying being forced or taking pleasure from it. I am as always stuck in a place where I cannot go forwards and hate going backwards. I downloaded a book on Staying or Going, make the choice not dither. It may help. She texted me and called me, saying she was worried I was going to do something "Silly". Hence why she came over.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 2, 2022 11:24:20 GMT -5
I understand why she came over. She wanted to lure you back. I don't know why you told her where you were and why you went back home. To me, it sounds like you left to see if she cared enough to go after you. If you were serious about leaving her permanently, you would not have told her where you were nor would you have agreed to see her when she went to the hotel.
I don't understand why you'd bow to her demand that you not masturbate or even look at porn. It's not as if you are masturbating or looking at porn and denying her her marital rights. She's the one denying you sex with her. Why do you allow her to not even let you have sex with yourself? I'd laugh in a partner's face if they tried to demand that of me.
Making you give up your friends is what abusers do to isolate their partners and thus making you more dependant on your abuser. You don't have to comply.
Are you in therapy? A therapist experienced in working with domestic abuse victims could be helpful.
If you don't comply with her ridiculous demands what can she do? Divorce you? Good riddance!
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She won
Nov 4, 2022 3:14:59 GMT -5
via mobile
h likes this
Post by ironhamster on Nov 4, 2022 3:14:59 GMT -5
Food for thought. One of my old coworkers had two phones. One was his everyday smart phone. One never left work, and wasn't connected to him in any way other than he had it. Perhaps you might have a trusted friend that can help set you up with an alternate identity?
Another option is to decide how you are going to live, and make some ultimatums yourself.
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Post by jim44444 on Nov 4, 2022 19:47:41 GMT -5
lessingham, I am glad you posted here again. Too often members disappear and we do not know if they are unable or unwilling to give closure. You titled this thread "She Won". I do not think she won nor did you lose. However you did surrender. Unfortunately it does not seem that you negotiated any terms. Again when you left for a day and she asked you to come back it appears you did not negotiate any terms. Please seek professional help to learn how to stand up for yourself. We all react differently to demands and stress but we must look after ourselves first. It is not too late to present your demands. There is no way you can ethically demand she have sex with you but you can demand couples counseling. You can demand respect for your privacy. You can tell her to piss off concerning your masturbation. Please sir take back control of your life.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 6, 2022 3:34:50 GMT -5
I suppose there is a difference between her winning and me losing. She did not win, but lost too, she lost me. Working hard this week on reclaiming my sexuality and my control over it. I need to believe in that, that I deserve sex
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 6, 2022 6:19:18 GMT -5
Lessingham, you not only deserve sex but more importantly, you deserve the respect that most spouses give instinctively to their mates. In my own deal, this played an important role in ending the SM. The lack of respect my X wife showed to me was pivotal for me in ending the relationship. Your W has by her actions repeatedly shown she has no respect for you. Her attitude towards sex isn't the important aspect in your most recent post. It is her ordering you about without regard of what is your right in a free society. I agree with Jim 44444 that you need counselling for your lack of self-confidence and self-respect. I also would encourage you to seek such counselling, not for your marriage, but for yourself going forward. A woman rarely f*cks a man she does not respect. And no woman respects a man who has no respect for himself.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 6, 2022 6:37:15 GMT -5
I suppose there is a difference between her winning and me losing. She did not win, but lost too, she lost me. Working hard this week on reclaiming my sexuality and my control over it. I need to believe in that, that I deserve sex You deserve the intimacy, respect, self esteem, joy, and feeling of accomplishment, and fulfillment that comes from having sex. You deserve the experience of giving and receiving again. Why?... because YOU have a lot to give to someone who will appreciate it, want it, crave it, and give it right back to you! I am no 'relationship expert' trained psychologist, marriage counselor, but....I have my own personal experiences. Experiences that i learned from ,and continue to learn from! I remember the day.... My now ex said in counselling " I detached myself from you years ago". My immediate response was " Yea, no kidding! You've been detached the day after the wedding". However...it took actually hearing her coldly, proudly, spew those words to the councilor ,like she had every right to be that way, and NOTHING was going to change her behavior! That it will always be someone else's fault. ( Her world of DARVO) Another one of those 'tipping points' or 'nail in the coffin'.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 7, 2022 3:13:01 GMT -5
Interesting item in the book, women will have sex with lovers but not providers. Men in sexless marriages turn themselves more into providers and make things worse. Ie, doing more chores, working harder and so on. The book says turn yourself into a lover, get healthy, get secure in your masculinity and stop using your partner as a mirror of approval. And if it fails, hell you look good for the new woman in your life! Most books I have read say the opposite, do more chores, be more attentive etc.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 7, 2022 6:24:37 GMT -5
Interesting item in the book, women will have sex with lovers but not providers. Men in sexless marriages turn themselves more into providers and make things worse. Ie, doing more chores, working harder and so on. The book says turn yourself into a lover, get healthy, get secure in your masculinity and stop using your partner as a mirror of approval. And if it fails, hell you look good for the new woman in your life! Most books I have read say the opposite, do more chores, be more attentive etc. When I was trying to "fix" things I also read the books and articles that advised doing "chore play" and being "present" for your spouse. So I did that. It had zero effect toward improving the sexless state of the marriage. If fact I believe it led to even less respect in how my W saw me. When I had the talk about having a FWB for me she came around to rekindling the intimacy and we were intimate a couple times a week for the next 3 months or so. Then she reverted back to her old refusing ways. Don't put any faith in the chore play nonsense. Helping around the house is something a man should be doing as a matter of the normal maintaining of the household. It should not be a barter arrangement for sex. Losing weight, boosting your fitness program, becoming more physically attractive will probably go way farther in bringing about an improvement in the amount of intimacy you see in your life. If not from your W, then from another woman who appreciates having a fit male between her legs.
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 7, 2022 6:40:13 GMT -5
Lessingham, you not only deserve sex but more importantly, you deserve the respect that most spouses give instinctively to their mates.... It is her ordering you about without regard of what is your right in a free society. I have to ask, lessingham, do you have any outside interactions? I just picture you at a meetup: a book club, bowling, hiking, poker, and after a few meetings, someone starts asking you about yourself and expressing interest in you, just as a fellow human being and whether your tolerance for your wife's constant belittling and dehumanization could survive. Due respect and civility from a former total stranger could stand in stark contrast to someone we expect to be supportive and tears us down. You may need some (more?) exposure to ordinary humanity. Ideally not work, where something is expected of you. An environment where courtesy and thoughtful engagement are demonstrations of friendship, optional gestures of generosity, assuming you're up for such an opportunity. If I've forgotten tales of your social groups, my apologies. Stories can blend together here and my memory took a beating over the last few years. I blame COVID. Neverminded whether I should or not.
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 7, 2022 7:01:25 GMT -5
Interesting item in the book, women will have sex with lovers but not providers. Men in sexless marriages turn themselves more into providers and make things worse. Ie, doing more chores, working harder and so on. The book says turn yourself into a lover, get healthy, get secure in your masculinity and stop using your partner as a mirror of approval. And if it fails, hell you look good for the new woman in your life! Most books I have read say the opposite, do more chores, be more attentive etc. When I was trying to "fix" things I also read the books and articles that advised doing "chore play" and being "present" for your spouse. So I did that. It had zero effect toward improving the sexless state of the marriage. If fact I believe it led to even less respect in how my W saw me. When I had the talk about having a FWB for me she came around to rekindling the intimacy and we were intimate a couple times a week for the next 3 months or so. Then she reverted back to her old refusing ways. Don't put any faith in the chore play nonsense. Helping around the house is something a man should be doing as a matter of the normal maintaining of the household. It should not be a barter arrangement for sex. Losing weight, boosting your fitness program, becoming more physically attractive will probably go way farther in bringing about an improvement in the amount of intimacy you see in your life. If not from your W, then from another woman who appreciates having a fit male between her legs. Cue Dr. Psych Mom: www.drpsychmom.com/2022/03/04/my-male-clients-are-doing-much-more-housework-and-childcare-than-a-decade-ago-and-their-wives-are-not-happier/"I’ve observed is that Millennial men do far, far more housework and childcare than men in prior years. Still, their wives are equally as unhappy with them, if not more so...complaints have shifted from unfair distribution of housework and childcare responsibilities to unfair distribution of emotional labor, or some other arbiter of perceived inequity.”
When you do all that "lover" stuff, concern of an affair is not uncommonly the impetus for engagement. I've done the lion's share of chores for my clinically depressed wife for decades. I treated her very well as I prepared to step out, so she'd know it wasn't that I no longer loved her. She only reset after I went on two dates and told her I'd be going on many more. Only credible threats seem to work. I really hate to put it that bluntly, but no refusing wife has reversed any other way. (Refusing husbands can be, and have been, persuaded but we don't have a good idea how or why, yet.) Getting physically fit, being less available (independent hobbies and circles of friends) all builds that environment of threat. It's such bullshit to have to move heaven and earth like that, but dammit if it isn't a much better plan. (and, if not...as mentioned, you're in great shape, physically and mentally, for your next lover) A big plus is that the results can be observed and appreciated by people other than our spouse. Positive feedback starts coming our way. Our spouse ignoring our value is not the sole source of our self-esteem, assuming we cannot take pleasure in self-improvement on our own.
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She won
Nov 7, 2022 15:08:42 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by heelots on Nov 7, 2022 15:08:42 GMT -5
When I was trying to "fix" things I also read the books and articles that advised doing "chore play" and being "present" for your spouse. So I did that. It had zero effect toward improving the sexless state of the marriage. If fact I believe it led to even less respect in how my W saw me. When I had the talk about having a FWB for me she came around to rekindling the intimacy and we were intimate a couple times a week for the next 3 months or so. Then she reverted back to her old refusing ways. Don't put any faith in the chore play nonsense. Helping around the house is something a man should be doing as a matter of the normal maintaining of the household. It should not be a barter arrangement for sex. Losing weight, boosting your fitness program, becoming more physically attractive will probably go way farther in bringing about an improvement in the amount of intimacy you see in your life. If not from your W, then from another woman who appreciates having a fit male between her legs. Cue Dr. Psych Mom: www.drpsychmom.com/2022/03/04/my-male-clients-are-doing-much-more-housework-and-childcare-than-a-decade-ago-and-their-wives-are-not-happier/"I’ve observed is that Millennial men do far, far more housework and childcare than men in prior years. Still, their wives are equally as unhappy with them, if not more so...complaints have shifted from unfair distribution of housework and childcare responsibilities to unfair distribution of emotional labor, or some other arbiter of perceived inequity.”
When you do all that "lover" stuff, concern of an affair is not uncommonly the impetus for engagement. I've done the lion's share of chores for my clinically depressed wife for decades. I treated her very well as I prepared to step out, so she'd know it wasn't that I no longer loved her. She only reset after I went on two dates and told her I'd be going on many more. Only credible threats seem to work. I really hate to put it that bluntly, but no refusing wife has reversed any other way. (Refusing husbands can be, and have been, persuaded but we don't have a good idea how or why, yet.) Getting physically fit, being less available (independent hobbies and circles of friends) all builds that environment of threat. It's such bullshit to have to move heaven and earth like that, but dammit if it isn't a much better plan. (and, if not...as mentioned, you're in great shape, physically and mentally, for your next lover) A big plus is that the results can be observed and appreciated by people other than our spouse. Positive feedback starts coming our way. Our spouse ignoring our value is not the sole source of our self-esteem, assuming we cannot take pleasure in self-improvement on our own. Doing more chores to fix a marriage is an absolute steaming crock of shit. Personally I don't believe that ever did a damned thing to fix a marriage or result in more sex. You can try that route, ( I did) all that did was produce another hoop that needed to be jumped through and I don’t recall in that being any magic bullet to get those legs spread!
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Post by sweetplumeria on Nov 8, 2022 2:19:14 GMT -5
I'm new here and don't know the back story. Is there any opportunity to use her demands to negotiate and bring your demands to the table? A refuser making demands just seems laughable and cruel. ... or manipulative and common
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