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She won
Nov 8, 2022 3:11:58 GMT -5
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Post by lessingham on Nov 8, 2022 3:11:58 GMT -5
The book says, do your share of chores and do them now. No asking for approval like a kid. Also sats presents reinforce negstive behaviour. Ie no sex but I get flowers! Wow no need for any inprovement there. Anyhow, today she is sick so I am nurse,
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 8, 2022 5:09:44 GMT -5
Doing more chores to fix a marriage is an absolute steaming crock of shit. Personally I don't believe that ever did a damned thing to fix a marriage or result in more sex. You can try that route, ( I did) all that did was produce another hoop that needed to be jumped through and I don’t recall in that being any magic bullet to get those legs spread! Dr. P-M's contention is more chores generally only help in the bedroom if the husband is doing almost none. This assumes the husband is physically capable and is actually home, rather than deployed overseas, for example. Choreplay fails a lot because the imbalance is rarely stark enough to be a vital issue as compared with others (trauma, never attracted/sexual in the first place, hygiene issues, body image, etc.) For the fellas who sit on their duff constantly, it's easy enough to test the theory and rule it out. Even if she's the stay-at-home spouse, it ain't bad policy to take some responsibility for your upkeep anyway. After all, you may want to break things off if intimacy is mandatory and you'll end up doing everything. To lessingham 's observation, some spouses nitpick the execution of chores. Hey, great. Go ahead, Lovalumps. Put the spit-n'-polish on my half-assed job! It's win-win. You get it the way you want with only half the work! If you're one of these "supervised" spouses, they're your chores too, and you're not getting paid. You have no boss. The way you do them is correct. Any alteration is a favor you're doing. Unappreciated favors may be important indicators of bigger problems. I bought my wife flowers for no reason when I was about to start dating. When she reset, I started buying them every time we coupled. She didn't make the connection. After the remission, the cynical reciprocation motive faded away. She's so sick you're her nurse now? Uh oh. So, the recognition her life is worse without you may be entirely practical. G'damn, man. Just when I was thinking you had a tendril of connection, it's a mirage. Well, maybe there is one, but that nugget means there might not be and you're just getting used as hired help. I'd really like that not to be true. That would explain your rapid return to her. There's a pressing need you don't feel right about abandoning. A horrible sense of duty that threatens your self-respect if you justifiably leave.
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She won
Nov 8, 2022 5:20:46 GMT -5
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Post by lessingham on Nov 8, 2022 5:20:46 GMT -5
Half ass chore doers deserve their asses kicked. I have my chore list which I do well. I resent her passing over her chores or giving up halfway, clearing out the kitchen and then too tired to put back for example.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 8, 2022 10:08:25 GMT -5
Stay with her and if she gets chronically ill, you could be stuck being her nurse for years. Even worse, if you get chronically ill, she'd be your uncaring nurse. The thought of either was frightening enough to encourage me to divorce. I knew I'd be better off with hired help or relying on friends than relying on my refuser for help if I became ill. And I knew I didn't want to be stuck like my mom was with my father after he had strokes and became mute and incontinent.
Your wife, Lessingham, has reason to want you to stay as she relies on you for help in situations like this.
This would be a good time for you to set some boundaries. She's helpless. You could tell her to butt out of your phone, your social life, your masturbation, or you won't stick around. And you can go back to connecting with your women friends and masturbating. You really do have a lot of power. Frankly, you always did. After all, she can choose to get mad if you masturbate or talk to women, but what can she do to you? Stop having sex with you? She's already not having sex with you. Divorce you? That, presumably, would make life easy for you. If she chooses to berate you, you always can leave the house (but I don't suggest moving out unless you've talked to a lawyer first and cleared that move).
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Post by lessingham on Nov 9, 2022 3:54:56 GMT -5
Looking to go out more. Also exercise. My arthritis is my go to excuse for not exercising. But I am getting the bike out today for 5 mins, feeble but better than no 5 mins and a start. I am probably a 4, so aiming to get myself to 5 on the "cor!" Scale. But hey, my inflation linked pensions must put me up to a 9 in the over 60s demographic. (Laughing)
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 9, 2022 5:20:03 GMT -5
Half ass chore doers deserve their asses kicked. I have my chore list which I do well. I resent her passing over her chores or giving up halfway, clearing out the kitchen and then too tired to put back for example. Y'see. That was me once. After I mumbled about the absurd imbalance of the full time breadwinner doing damn near everything, the family split chores up with the ordinary sense of fair play any family should; a list with magnets marking who would do what. I humored them. As the weeks wore on, I slid each magnet into my column leaving magnets behind only on chores that were lofty aspirations of an orderly house. My resentment built over years. Then I snapped. I used to be an environmentalist. We use paper plates and plastic cups now to cut down on the dishes. My clinically depressed daughter still hangs on to the identity of an environmentalist but leaves dirty silverware in the sink. I have stopped washing forks. She's the only one that uses them. They lie strewn about the bottom of teh sink. Occasionally they disappear into the dishwasher. Our house is cluttered to the rafters with Amazon crap caused by my wife's shopaholism. (mysteriously in remission lately.) My own living space is compressed smaller than my cubicle at work. We're not a hoarders house, but the basement would serve as a "red flag" for any who gazed upon it and tsk'd. After somebody, twice, spilled bleach on my favorite shirts, I banned chlorine bleach. That shit is the spittle of Satan. So we have dingy whites. Y'know what? Off-white, cream, and bright gray suit my family. Breathtaking, gleaming white is for people with their act together. That ain't us. Half-assed is a matter of survival and capitulation to low standards was my path to zen serenity. I walk in the cluttered, dusty, dog-hair festooned piles of detritus of lives past as a stranger. I am a guest in this home and none of this is my responsibility. I clean when my spirit moves me and the minor order I restore brings me pleasure rather than rage. (I still seethe a bit when a mountain of dishes full of pots and pans appears in the sink cuz someone got inspired by an effing cooking show, I'll admit. Hope it was delicious. Your dishes are the cost you don't pay.) If the half-assed should get their asses half-kicked, what fate befalls the shirkers? Awesome news about the improvement plan and the biking. How'd it go? Did it go? Oh crap, were the tires flat?
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 9, 2022 17:24:04 GMT -5
lessingham: "But hey, my inflation linked pensions must put me up to a 9 in the over 60s demographic."
You also could live well in places like Thailand, Croatia, Portugal, the Phillipines, Ecuador, and you'd be considered a great catch to even much younger women. Likely you'd live much better economically than you do now in the UK.
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She won
Nov 9, 2022 18:53:35 GMT -5
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 9, 2022 18:53:35 GMT -5
Listens to NSM. She is wise beyond her years 😉 lessingham: "But hey, my inflation linked pensions must put me up to a 9 in the over 60s demographic." You also could live well in places like Thailand, Croatia, Portugal, the Phillipines, Ecuador, and you'd be considered a great catch to even much younger women. Likely you'd live much better economically than you do now in the UK.
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She won
Nov 10, 2022 1:44:01 GMT -5
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 10, 2022 1:44:01 GMT -5
This is apparently quite the thing in Philippines, and there’s a large expat community from all over the world. A lot are military retirees because their pension isn’t much in the US but it’s wealthy in Philippines - enough that they have romantic prospects.
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She won
Nov 10, 2022 3:15:37 GMT -5
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Post by lessingham on Nov 10, 2022 3:15:37 GMT -5
I dream of Thailand. But it seems to be a land of smiles and hypocracy. Perhaps the Philippines, if I could spell it correctly. Read years ago about civil war widows dying in the 60s. Yup, desperate young girls marrying very old civil war veterans backbin the early 20th century for their pensions and living on. Seems the idea has a pedigree.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 10, 2022 12:32:23 GMT -5
You are CHOOSING this. So is she.
What are your alternatives to your present scenario? You can leave - and I don't mean go to a hotel and tell her where you are, so you can enact the drama of her coming to the hotel to get you.
It's obvious she's not particularly happy either, so presumably she values some aspect of the situation or (more likely, fears the alternative).
If you want to choose a different path, then you need to say it out loud - at least to yourself and then to her. And you need to enact a consequence for crossing a boundary.
What are the minimums that you will accept. What is the ideal? What are things you cannot accept? What will you do if those happen?
What is your alternative to negotiation, if she's not willing to work with you. Separate the results you want from the APPROACH you both commit to. Figure out the hill you are prepared to die on, and then plant your flag.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 10, 2022 17:48:25 GMT -5
lessingham: "I dream of Thailand. But it seems to be a land of smiles and hypocracy. Perhaps the Philippines, if I could spell it correctly. "
Stop dreaming and buy a plane ticket and see for yourself. Buy some books about expat life in those places. Or just keep living your miserable life in the UK with your wife.
I've met lots of people who have been expats in Thailand and were very happy there. My ex is now married to a Thai woman, who's about 20 years younger than him, and according to my son who has met her, seems like a nice person. I imagine that whether or not he has sex with her, he's still a good catch for her and he's probably happy with her. As for the Phillipines --that's where a young woman somehow tricked my ex that he'd impregnated her (even though he's sterile). He naively took parentage and pays $300 a month child support. He'd been paying it for 2 years when we divorced and I included DNA testing of his child as part of the divorce settlement. DNA proved the child wasn't his, but knowing him, he's probably still supporting the child.
I continue to be a happy expat in Mexico living more comfortably than I was in the US.
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She won
Nov 11, 2022 7:14:52 GMT -5
Post by mirrororchid on Nov 11, 2022 7:14:52 GMT -5
lessingham: "I dream of Thailand. But it seems to be a land of smiles and hypocrisy. Perhaps the Philippines, if I could spell it correctly. " Stop dreaming and buy a plane ticket and see for yourself. Buy some books about expat life in those places. Or just keep living your miserable life in the UK with your wife. Tough decision. He's said he is essentially his wife's nurse now. Packing up and leaving may fly in direct conflict with his identity as the devoted husband. Even if the role sucks, the noble martyrdom thing can have a strong hold on a person. Our hapless friend has a pretty low self-regard of himself, and his service to his ungrateful wife may be one of teh few things he sees in himself that is a positive thing. Many of us doubt he needs to invest so intensely in that specific thing he likes in himself, given the heavy cost, but to abandon it before it can be enhanced with other self-esteem construction can get a man stuck in neutral gear. Similarly, Apocrypha's mental inventory is well worth doing, but if Lessingham feels stuck, it remains only that, and not actionable. While serving his wife may not hold rewards, his identity is precious and he doesn't feel as though he has much else to be proud of. (Totally making assumptions here.) Perhaps self esteem is his primary requirement for self-satisfaction? So many of us here feel or felt wronged by our refusers. The trouble here is, I think Lessingham does not have this critical level of self-love. How does he internalize our confidence in him? How does he feel himself worthy at this most basic level that so many of us show up with at the ready? Therapy? Validation by outside parties? Perhaps the basic mindset that allows the rest of us to seek happiness needs to be developed. He can disabuse me of my presumptions, if he likes.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 12, 2022 3:30:32 GMT -5
I was in therapy for a few years. My therapist joked once she could improve my self esteem, once she found it! So maybe being a lacky to my sexless wife is as good as it gets in my world. Or was. Now I am determined to improve, grow and find a better inner vision of myself. Today I am going to a model soldier exhibition by myself.
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She won
Nov 12, 2022 11:11:59 GMT -5
Post by northstarmom on Nov 12, 2022 11:11:59 GMT -5
lessingham: "I was in therapy for a few years. My therapist joked once she could improve my self esteem, once she found it! So maybe being a lacky to my sexless wife is as good as it gets in my world. Or was. Now I am determined to improve, grow and find a better inner vision of myself. Today I am going to a model soldier exhibition by myself."
The only way you probably will change will be for you to return to therapy and stay as long as it takes. If you have no progress with your therapist, get another. I was in therapy about a total of 10 years and it changed my life. One of my friends was in therapy for 20 years and it changed her life. Being with the right therapist for as long as it takes is the best gift you can give yourself.
I've noticed that when you start addressing your issues, you quit. You did that here a couple of times. I imagine you do the same with your therapists.
How you love your life is your choice. Right now, it's your choice to live in misery. Only you can take the actions and make the decisions to change your life. If you keep doing what you've been doing you'll be permanently stuck. Either your wife will get seriously and chronically ill and you won't have the guts to leave her then or you will get seriously ill and can't leave her. There was a man who posted here, Handy, who ended up dying after staying in his sexless marriage til he was too old to easily leave.
It really is your life and your choice. You know what steps you need to take. You can take them or you can keep living in the misery that apparently you are comfortable living in.
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