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Post by lessingham on Nov 24, 2022 3:15:59 GMT -5
It is the Charlie Brown and Lucy syndrome. Lucy puts up the ball for Charlie and he hopes this time she will not move it as he kicks. And yup, there he is again flst on his back. My wife says things will change, plays flirty, suggests and then whoops, not tonight. Not now, maybe later. She has no intention of changing. She is deluding herself as much as me. So, like Charlie Brown, it is up to me not to play.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 24, 2022 4:42:01 GMT -5
It is the Charlie Brown and Lucy syndrome. Lucy puts up the ball for Charlie and he hopes this time she will not move it as he kicks. And yup, there he is again flst on his back. My wife says things will change, plays flirty, suggests and then whoops, not tonight. Not now, maybe later. She has no intention of changing. She is deluding herself as much as me. So, like Charlie Brown, it is up to me not to play. I heard that same response so many times that if I had a dollar for every time I could probably go out for dinner and a movie. It finally stopped when i decided not to play anymore. I doubt that she is deluding herself about what she is intending to do. Unless you mean she is thinking she will never have to worry about your taking a stand in reclaiming your self-respect.
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 24, 2022 8:12:42 GMT -5
... My wife says things will change, plays flirty, suggests and then whoops, not tonight. ... I just listened to Dr. PsychMom about this very thing. It struck me as sadistic. Some wives apparently think it's a GOOD thing to do this! open.spotify.com/episode/5bg1nMtRTmDlwnfEqiiYhMMaybe it can be, if we understand they're TRYING to do something nice, we can be less upset. Of course following through would be preferable, but if wishes were thrushes beggars would eat birds.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 24, 2022 9:09:24 GMT -5
... My wife says things will change, plays flirty, suggests and then whoops, not tonight. ... I just listened to Dr. PsychMom about this very thing. It struck me as sadistic. Some wives apparently think it's a GOOD thing to do this! open.spotify.com/episode/5bg1nMtRTmDlwnfEqiiYhMMaybe it can be, if we understand they're TRYING to do something nice, we can be less upset. Of course following through would be preferable, but if wishes were thrushes beggars would eat birds. You know how much i like and agree with Dr. PsychMom,.... but I would like to go on a side track for a moment and point out a problem I had with her analogy. When a wife/women/or anyone says to me: WE should paint the bedroom. WE should go to the fall festival. WE should go out on more date nights. WE should buy the kids new back packs. etc... Using the word "WE", to me, means both of us. Together. Not- YOU need to do that on your own. Someone has to "initiate it" get it started, take action, and make definite plans. Time, location, buying of materials, beginning the project and saying " come help me, let's do this together." Not you're supposed to do ALL OF THAT YOURSELF because I said WE SHOULD DO THAT! SEX is different. You can't just have sex by yourself... it takes two. And for it to be enjoyable, two willing and agreeing partners. Saying "yes, lets do that" and then forgetting about it, is basically telling your partner, " go do it on your own". So putting it all under the umbrella of " flirting" makes it okay to " talk the talk but not walk the walk?" Words of affirmation- you're not affirming anything if there's no action to back it up. ( probably why I prefer Touch and quality time- those two take action, involving both partners) What ever happened to " words mean things?" Only when it's to your advantage? Rant over. carry on!
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Post by blunder8 on Nov 24, 2022 10:30:15 GMT -5
So true about the false hope from getting "flirty" talk and promises of "later." It is a cruel tactic I have been on the receiving end of for a long time.
Recognizing it as a bait and switch tactic is a positive step.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 24, 2022 14:07:28 GMT -5
It is the Charlie Brown and Lucy syndrome. Lucy puts up the ball for Charlie and he hopes this time she will not move it as he kicks. And yup, there he is again flst on his back. My wife says things will change, plays flirty, suggests and then whoops, not tonight. Not now, maybe later. She has no intention of changing. She is deluding herself as much as me. So, like Charlie Brown, it is up to me not to play. Imagine someone you don't want to have sex with. How do you change that? This is the scale of the task at hand. Sometimes, as in the case of an affair that is discovered, or separation papers served - when there is an imminent, present threat to the status quo - this propels the urgency of attention (albeit in chaotic and destructive directions). That's quite different from a general hypothetical about a marriage in crisis "if things don't change soon". This itself is unlikely to make anyone want to have sex. It doesn't necessarily create desire for that person. It instead creates a situation where two unwanted outcomes are compared. But until something happens at that scale, it's unlikely that any serious priority will be considered to your issues. If you want to empathize as to what she might be feeling, you are both presently in the same situation - you don't want to leave the relationship even though both your sexual intimacy and connection needs aren't met. Her strategy will be delay/defer because she wants to preserve the arrangement and this runs opposite to your confront/prioritize strategy. This will result in your normal desires being framed - to her - as an obsession with sex. She likely knows that you know she doesn't want to have sex with you. So she will externalize the blame to characterize your desire for physical connection as obscene - because it's you wanting to use her even though she doesn't want to have sex with you. So, it gets taken as evidence of the kind of person you are, and associated with disgust.
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Post by h on Nov 26, 2022 8:32:09 GMT -5
So true about the false hope from getting "flirty" talk and promises of "later." It is a cruel tactic I have been on the receiving end of for a long time. Recognizing it as a bait and switch tactic is a positive step. I was on the receiving end of unfulfilled promises of "later" sex for years. I learned that "later" never happens. After one particularly cruel event, I told my wife to never do that to me again. I told her if she ever led me on and didn't follow through just one more time, I was moving to the spare bedroom and would never forgive or forget it again. So far she hasn't done this since.
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She won
Nov 27, 2022 5:55:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lessingham on Nov 27, 2022 5:55:48 GMT -5
Weird exchange yesterday. She was watching her game on tv. At half time she ticked some clothes in a magazine for consideration as Christmas presents. I leafed through and found a dress I though she would look good in. I showed it to her and she slapped my hand away and shouted at me. I was shocked so left the room. She came in to the library and apoligised, saying she thought I was deliberately messing about to make her miss the game. Then she demanded I apoligise to her for making her hit me!!!! Okay, maybe she had a point in slapping me away and it was more of a surprise than hurt. But the demand I apologise, was thst weird, right or just plain wrong?
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 27, 2022 12:25:46 GMT -5
Lessingham: "Weird exchange yesterday. She was watching her game on tv. At half time she ticked some clothes in a magazine for consideration as Christmas presents. I leafed through and found a dress I though she would look good in. I showed it to her and she slapped my hand away and shouted at me. I was shocked so left the room. She came in to the library and apoligised, saying she thought I was deliberately messing about to make her miss the game. Then she demanded I apoligise to her for making her hit me!!!! Okay, maybe she had a point in slapping me away and it was more of a surprise than hurt. But the demand I apologise, was thst weird, right or just plain wrong?"
Am I correct in thinking that she was making a list of possible presents for you to buy her? Then you commented on one and she slapped you and shouted at you?
No, her behavior wasn't normal or courteous. She should have apologized to you. Period. She should not have expected that you would apologize to her. It was not your fault that she hit you. What she did reflects her own lack of self control.
For your own health and happiness, I encourage you to start therapy again. You grew up in a very dysfunctional home so you don't know what kind of behavior is acceptable and inacceptable for others to do toward you. A good therapist can help you recognize when you are being treated badly. And the therapist can help you continue to learn to set boundaries. If you didn't make much progress with your previous therapists, find a new therapist even if it costs a lot. You are worth it. I'm guessing that your wife's mean, manipulative, and inconsiderate actions that you post here about are only the tip of the iceberg. You may not yet recognize her other problematic behavior.
I am speaking from experience. What turned my life around was my deciding to invest in the best therapist I could find. She did not take insurance so I had to pay out of pocket.I was not employed, so paying wasn't easy, but I did it. And the time and money I invested helped me become the type of person I'd always admired, but never thought I could be. While I didn't go into therapy planning to end my marriage, after I changed so much, my husband simply wasn't the type of person I wanted to be married to. Even if one were to take our lack of sex out of consideration, he still was not the type of person I enjoyed being around. I made friends that I enjoyed and I did activities that I enjoyed, and I did all of those things without him. My transformation took several years, and I invested a lot of money in the therapy that supported me. But it was worth it!
One last thing. In the last years of my marriage, I realized that I didn't enjoy getting presents for my husband nor did I enjoy getting them from him. I also didn't enjoy celebrating our anniversary, Valentines Day,etc. Nor did I enjoy spending Xmas with him. Indeed, I preferred spending it alone than being with him. So at my suggestion we stopped those celebrations. I sent him off for Xmas to visit his elderly mom. We started ignoring those other celebratory days. We stopped getting each other presents. I just said we were too old for that stuff, and he agreed. In truth, I was just tired of faking a closeness that we didn't have.
You've expressed concerns about money if you divorce. Have you looked into becoming an expat? I know many people in England retire in Spain, Portugal or Italy because the cost of living is lower. This could be an option for you. I'm living very comfortably in Mexico basically on my Social Security. It allows me to have a 2 bedroom, 2 bath, fully furnished, newly renovated apartment, a maid, and to eat out virtually daily. From what you've said of your inflation-proof pension, you probably could live abroad with an even higher standard of living than I have. International Living magazine is a good source of info on the expat life.
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Post by tamara68 on Nov 27, 2022 16:41:23 GMT -5
lessingham, I agree with what northstarmom says. Your wife was acting insane. You seem to think she had a point in slapping you. That is a sure signal you have been abused for a long time. Many abuse victims think their abuser had a point in hurting them. Your wife is treating you badly. You don't have to put up with it and you are not the one who needs to apologize.
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She won
Nov 28, 2022 3:04:25 GMT -5
Post by mirrororchid on Nov 28, 2022 3:04:25 GMT -5
Weird exchange yesterday. She was watching her game on tv. At half time she ticked some clothes in a magazine for consideration as Christmas presents. I leafed through and found a dress I though she would look good in. I showed it to her and she slapped my hand away and shouted at me. I was shocked so left the room. She came in to the library and apologized, saying she thought I was deliberately messing about to make her miss the game. Then she demanded I apologize to her for making her hit me!!!! Okay, maybe she had a point in slapping me away and it was more of a surprise than hurt. But the demand I apologize, was that weird, right or just plain wrong? Read that again, but switch the roles. If you'd been the wife, what would I tell a woman who said what you just said? "I'm sorry, baby, but you make me so crazy." (I shouldn't have hit you, but you should be sorry for what you did.) Your latest behavior of exploring, out on your own, to become more physically fit and engage events outside the home is breaking the co-dependency that has brought you so low for so many years. It resembles NorthStarMom's successful path. Your wife's abuse, verbal, mental, and now physical, seems to be something you respond to. You seek to forge ties with her. You're sympathizing with her mild violence. She executed the toxic bond between the two of you, and it appealed to you for some reason. Why was she upset? She told you what she thought looked good on her. Her opinion of her own tastes and judgement is important to her and she thinks it should be what's important to you. You made the horrific mistake of expressing your own opinion of what would make her look good, perhaps interpreting it as dislike for her own choices. Criticism? Excuse me? How dare you have tastes of your own! I want to like what I look like in the mirror! What you think I look like is immaterial and selfish. Of what use is your attraction to me! If anything, that's objectifying me and only promoting the physical attraction to me I so abhor! Friend, a gentleman never strikes a lady. The flip side of that worthwhile societal value is that a lady never hits a gentleman. Your wife has acted with extraordinary disregard for societal norms. You do yourself, her, and the world no favor by excusing it. Stay your course. Build you own life apart from her. Taste joy in life and make connections that value your contributions. Grow strong, destroy your need for her approval. Only then, might you be happy... without, or with her. Self-respect will help you both. As I recall, you serve as her caretaker. Perhaps that's a tie you cannot get yourself to break. I totally get that. That doesn't mean you cannot dictate the terms of that support. Perhaps you feel she's entitled to your aid. Is there nothing she could do to forfeit that privilege? I put it to you that there is, and her behavior is reason enough to withdraw some of that benevolence. If not, you enable the abuse and signal to her that nothing she does has consequences. Again, not healthy for her to think that. It can lead to her doing something so rash that you quit entirely, with justification. Do not let her find the line to cross that neither of you knows exists. There's no benefit to allowing her to make you dislike her. Demand respect for her sake, as well as yours.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 28, 2022 3:14:36 GMT -5
And yesterday we went out with my son and she clipped his head in a shop, "as a joke". He told her not to hit him in public and she stormed off in a sulk. Maybe again he over reacted, or maybe she is crossing bounderies everywhere. I will look again for a decent therapist. And look to stop this "jokey" hitting before it escalates
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She won
Nov 28, 2022 8:11:11 GMT -5
h likes this
Post by csl on Nov 28, 2022 8:11:11 GMT -5
And yesterday we went out with my son and she clipped his head in a shop, "as a joke". He told her not to hit him in public and she stormed off in a sulk. Maybe again he over reacted, or maybe she is crossing bounderies everywhere. I will look again for a decent therapist. And look to stop this "jokey" hitting before it escalates Um, she hit you and she hit her son. I can think of one way to stop this: the police. Heck, it just might get her out of the house, as society is coming round to the idea that it is not a good idea to leave abusers in situ.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2022 10:54:42 GMT -5
lessingham: "And yesterday we went out with my son and she clipped his head in a shop, "as a joke". He told her not to hit him in public and she stormed off in a sulk. Maybe again he over reacted, or maybe she is crossing bounderies everywhere. I will look again for a decent therapist. And look to stop this "jokey" hitting before it escalates."
He told her "not to hit him in PUBLIC." Apparently, your adult son thinks it's OK for his mom to hit him in private. That you think that maybe he "overreactecd" is more evidence of how right now you don't have a realistic idea of what unacceptable behavior is. You and your son are so used to your wife's abuse that you think it's normal.
I hope you are avidly searching for a therapist. Therapists get booked up and take time off for the holiday season, so looking now for one is important. And your wife's hitting isn't jokey. She is abusive. The only way for you to stop her various types of abusive behavior toward you would be for you to have the guts to move out and cut contact with her. A divorce lawyer could help you. You cannot change her. You can change yourself by through therapy becoming more aware of what is unacceptable behavior. Knowing this would give you the fortitude to leave her and cut ties with others in your life who mistreat you. You'd learn to seek out people who are compassionate and kind.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 28, 2022 12:14:51 GMT -5
Lessingham, I was looking at your old posts and noticed one from 2 years ago when you were considering getting braces for your teeth. Most of us urged you to get them since you said your crooked teeth do not allow you to eat foods you enjoy. So, did you decide to get braces or did you decide that even though you could afford them and would benefit from them, your happiness wasn't worth getting them?
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