dd
Junior Member
Posts: 50 
Age Range: 41-45
|
Post by dd on May 28, 2020 11:45:41 GMT -5
“ When discussing this yesterday I pointed that out that she really doesn't want me to have friends it appears, or she wants to get rid of my new friends. She backed off a bit, but I think these type of conversations will make her realize she doesn't want to be with me, or it becomes more apparent how controlling she is even to herself. Anyway, I sound like I'm venting random ramblings, but me having sex, me having friends, me having hobbies are all just nuisances for her. Her spin has always been that it takes away from "family time". Meanwhile I am typically (before quarrantine) in the same house as my kids every hour of the day (I work from home) and I have a very flexible job so I barely ever miss a game or school event. I also do about half the cooking so I'm present with them for almost all meals, breakfast, lunch, dinner.” From what you posted, it’s obvious that she is not a woman who is compatible with you. Why are you waiting for her to move on when you have the right to calm it quits? Or you can continue to be with a controlling wife whom you seem to have lost love for. Your life, your choice. It's a timing thing. It's a long term exit plan. |
|
dd
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Age Range: 41-45
|
Post by dd on May 28, 2020 11:49:58 GMT -5
Brother dd . Your run of posts reads like you've ceded control over your choices to your spouse. In the absence of you making your choices, she's making the key choices for you. And you ain't real happy with the outcomes of what she's choosing for you. That's the thing. If you won't make your own choices, then someone or something will make them for you, and you will wear the consequences of that just as certainly as if you had deliberately made the choice yourself. For that reason, I'd suggest you take a far more pro-active position in regard to your choices. After all, if you are going to wear the consequences (and you are) then you need to be the one making your choices. With you making your choices, you are some chance of producing favourable consequences. With someone or something else making the choices for you, you are no chance of getting a favourable outcome - except by accident. I feel like I'm doing that by going forward with the activities that I'm interested in and not backing down on those. I'm going through some other to-do's that need to happen between now and whenever that will make things easier for me to move on when the time is right. The plan, if I chose to accept it, is already in motion. That involves created my own social network, and finding the financial flexibility to be more spontaneous. |
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on May 28, 2020 13:26:29 GMT -5
I think she knows I'm a good dad and our family is almost perfect in her eyes except for all of the projects she wants done. There is a new project every day for the yard, the house, this, that, etc. There is no point at which she'll ever be satisfied I'm afraid. I don't know how I deal with that. Flip that script around and try it on for size. Suppose you were visiting a married couple - friends. You are visiting him for the afternoon. He sets his wife to work. He has a lot of "traditional" expectations of her. Or he complains about her not doing them, or to the degree of satisfaction with which they are done. Cook dinner, keeping house - think June Cleaver. And it's clear from the way he talks about it that when he sets it up - she gets right to it. And that he feels entitled to it - that its a criteria for his wider participation in the marriage and as a pre-req for showing love to her. How would that make you feel, watching it? |
|
|
|
Post by angeleyes65 on May 31, 2020 8:28:12 GMT -5
Late to the party but the fact that you only see her friends and family should be a red flag. That's how controlling people work. They make your circle really small so you depend on them for human contact. Think stock Holme syndrome. It's makes it harder for you to leave.
You talk about returning to dating being hard. It's definitely strange after so many years but also kind of fun. And I don't know your age but I know a lot on people that are over 50 that started over and things were much better. Don't defeat yourself.
Also it is not your problem if she finds someone else. My ex NEEDS someone to and deals with depression. 3 years later he's still not trying to find someone. He's still hoping I'll come back. He knows I have a boyfriend. He's waiting for it to fail. That's on him I told him to spend his energy else where as have both kids. I can't make him get a life. Not my circus not my monkeys. Therapy after I got out really helped me with that. And if I had to do it all over again I would have went to counseling ( just me) before i Ieft would have made the actual leaving easier. I'm also a people pleaser , don't want to hurt anyone even if they are hurting me.
That would be my suggestion to you go to counseling to help you get out. Spend more time with family and friends and doing things you enjoy with out her. Make it a strictly room mate relationship.
|
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jun 1, 2020 1:57:29 GMT -5
itme your post is a perfect illustration of why a support system of friends is CRUCIAL. Not just coworkers, but real FRIENDS. I know I'd be farther down the road if I had a better network. I'm slowly rebuilding, but it's not easy.
|
|
dd
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Age Range: 41-45
|
Post by dd on Jun 1, 2020 22:16:52 GMT -5
So I'm still working on becoming more independent, but also, she has changed some over the last 6 weeks.
Still don't know if it's an act, or if she's working on it. She's either being more respectful or acting more respectful.
She suggested the other day about having my parents over which she previously avoided.
My family was hinting to me the other day that we should host 4th of July. I was a bit hesitant to mention to it to her because I have a large family (and she seemed to want to keep me away from them), but when I mentioned it, excepting to get shot down, she agreed we should.
We are on a sex drought since the sex from the talk, but I haven't made any moves myself towards her. She has been more affectionate.
In the end, I'm not sure if it will be enough or not. This could be quick lived, or it could take awhile.
I guess what I'm doing mentally (and part of my plan) is to create my own independence whether in the relationship or not. If the point comes where that means moving on, I'll be way better prepared to do so financially, family, and friends.
|
|
|
|
Post by saarinista on Jul 1, 2020 22:34:55 GMT -5
dd How goes it? Shall I pencil myself in to pop by your Fourth of July party? 😏 How's the reset going?
|
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jul 2, 2020 8:55:35 GMT -5
So you went on a walk with her to talk about it. And you've talked with her about it how many times since then? All too often, I come across husbands or wives who seem to think that a single mention should be enough to do the trick (you should pardon the pun). But it's not. It takes many talks, IF the refusing spouse is good-willed and willing to work. (All bets are off if complacency has set in.) One talk ain't enough, pure and simple. Okay, you made love once, she's been nicer and friendlier and more caring. Fine. But have you communicated what it is that needs to be in place, and talked about how you can get to that point? You say that you think she thinks... Yeah, that's good. Make assumptions rather than actually find out if this is the case. You might be right in assuming that she thinks that she has done a reset on you. Or it might be the case that she thinks that the way it is now is an improvement that you happy with. Have you talked with her to let her know that more is needed? You speak about this being your last option to keep it together. But it doesn't sound like she knows that it is, nor does it sound like you are acting like it is. Finally, as to the "I'll be your slut", yeah, you're right, that isn't her. NOW. I'm not saying that she needs to be a slut. Heck, I don't get that you are saying that you want her to be a slut. The fact that she used that term means that she has either bad information or a negative attitude (possibly both), but you won't know unless you talk. One and done is not a workable approach to discussing and creating a satisfactory sex life in a marriage. We talked a few times that week or two. I have not talked to a lawyer about it yet. I was hoping to meet personally with someone after this lock-down is up. I think if I went now it would be tough. I don't think the open relationship thing would work even if I found someone. First, it's very hard for me to find someone with out leaving the home, and my job and community volunteering is high profile, so I can't just go on dating sites posting my picture everywhere. But if I found someone, my sudden absences from the house at odd times would be obvious and I don't think she'd be okay with that. We'll need to continue to talk or get counseling. She was big on that as a solution when I was upset, but she really seems to want to avoid it. Seems like that might be more painful for her to have someone point possible faults or areas for improvement at her. I think for me the last few weeks are a bit easier because I'm empowering myself with a bit of a plan. Not a perfect one, but I'm getting more strength to go in that direction. Also the next time I mention about leaving it no longer will be the first. I think she understands a bit more from the perspective that I don't have much to lose at this point because much of the things I've had (friends, freedom, ability to get passionate sex, and ability to not be judged) have already been taken so the biggest unknown factor is how the kids are affected. She doesn't need to be okay with it. You're not okay with being celibate. Even up. (It's fairness, not revenge.) As for the community? If your geography allows, you may try my approach. I started dating to find out whether an open marriage was even possible (if no one wants me, why make the wife feel inadequate?) A friend of ours (polyamorous) was on the best poly dating site, (OKcupid) and I only wanted to date married women who didn't need me for kids, money, or a home. I made an ad and placed myself north of Baltimore in a city 51 miles from that friend. 50 miles is one of the ranges you can choose and I figured no woman needs the 100 mile range to find suitable gents. I then sent messages to promising dates in the southernmost parts of my fictional range. These were within reasonable travel times. I had platonic dates with two very pleasant women and my wife found out about them. I admitted everything. Later, I had planned on more dates but then my wife saw a therapist for other tragic reasons and she asked if I were going to date again. Weeks later the 7 month reset I've been enjoying occurred. You've said she's open to therapy. I never agreed to not date. I think that dead-man's switch in my hand attached to the marriage-bomb around my chest made a big difference. I'd suggest you act as though nothing will work and prepare to leave/date. Get a written record (texts do fine) about the outsourcing, then start the dating. The "bad guy" thing can be rapidly defused if you have her knowledge/tacit approval on your phone ready to convince anyone tacky enough to want to look. The dating can even be platonic (whether it is or not shouldn't be important unless she'd like to take on that aspect of mature adult relationships herself). Platonic dating was worrisome enough to reset my wife, maybe you'll be similarly lucky. The reset may not last, but it's been a splendid chapter in my life's story. |
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jul 3, 2020 6:06:48 GMT -5
These are new friends that I have made and now she's feeling the need to control that as well. ... When discussing this yesterday I pointed that out that she really doesn't want me to have friends it appears, or she wants to get rid of my new friends. ... [I'm] going forward with the activities that I'm interested in and not backing down on those. What do you think of the new friends he found on ILIASM, m'dear? Maybe you shoulda quit while you were ahead. The guy has decided his own life goals have some priority and they're effing supporting him. This sh*t has to stop! I had the same thought Apocrypha and angeleyes65 had. If a woman were living your life, I'd assume the husband was a wife beater. Isolating the victim from support is a classic control move. Discouraging "family time" with your side of the family? Do you bring your kids? (the grandchildren) More of the "family time" she's asking for and some "me" time for her to gossip and dish if she likes! How is this bad? That said, I suspect the only weapon she'll have is a sharp tongue you can be prepared for. Perhaps just assertiveness will be sufficient. Carve time out for yourself regardless of how many projects she thinks are more important. Suggest she prioritize them. Maybe insert a few of your own in the list. Do them in the order you see fit, accommodating her priorities to some degree. (You're a thoughtful husband, after all.) Perhaps some of it can be paid for? Is spending money on labor painful for her? How bad does she want something if it isn't free? Maybe have the kids help, so she can task all three of you (Family time!) and maybe she won't feel so entitled to free labor when she knows asking for a new job means asking her kids to do it. Hell, ask her to join in! Amazing how much importance such jobs lose when your own sweat is involved. Maybe mismatched paint isn't so bad? Mind you hiring help or bringing the kids in wouldn't be with the intent of speeding things up, or ever finishing the list. It may help build a sense of priorities for the kids. Work versus play balance and what do you lose when you invest heavily in your material things? I agree your switching to this new assertive self-respect dynamic is an excellent transition for your relationship. You say she's treating you better? Perhaps respect is contagious and you're Patient Zero. Self-respect can resemble confidence and we're told self-confidence is sexy. That'll serve you well in either outcome. I see Saaranista hoped for an update. Didn't realize I was necroposting. Last online June 6th. Her post made me think this was live. Damn folks, we're victims of his success? Have we been joyfully ghosted? |
|
|
|
Post by blueguy on Jul 4, 2020 16:49:18 GMT -5
Wow, the list of rules for sex sure sounds familiar.
Absolutely no oral to be because she finds it repulsive.
The very rare times I get to do oral on her I immediately have to brush my teeth and use mouthwash before we continue.
Hardly any touching me down there.
Same process each time: kissing her, play with her boobs, rub her down there.
She has to use lube each time which is a letdown for me as I know I don't do it for her.
Not when we have company in the house
Only missionary position.
No sexy clothing
No toys
Usually in the dark
Once we start it's hurry up for me to finish.
Immediately when we are done it's hurry up and clean up in the bathroom.
I stopped initiating late last year as I got tired of constantly getting rejected. As a result our frequency has dropped even further to maybe once a month now, and it's only when she initiates when she feels guilty. Outside of sex I rarely get to see her naked as she covers up quickly. Because of this I avoid trying to see her naked.
I have looked for ways to totally nuke my libido as I'm tired of taking care of it on my own. I've tried antidepressants which sucked because it only prevented orgasms, but my drive was still there. Honestly I wish my drive would just go away entirely. Sex is not worth it anymore to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by jim44444 on Jul 11, 2020 21:31:11 GMT -5
@dd, etal.
One of the things I read in this thread is a common theme. Waiting to leave when some future time is right. If you truly want to leave then now is the right time.
The following is something I emailed to a friend today, Sleepless Knight for those of you who remember him.
"Often we hear of someone's plan to leave when some future event/time arrives. When things will be easier. Bullshit. The easiest time is now, the next easiest will be tomorrow. Life will always throw roadblocks in our way.
If we wait until youngstest is out of school then one of the older kids will be getting married so wait until after their wedding. But now there is a job change so wait another year. Then someone is pregnant or sick or dying or 1000 other life events happen and soon you are 70 years old. You wake up to a pandemic realizing you have a better chance of dying than getting laid."
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 12, 2020 4:18:01 GMT -5
Like Brother jim44444 says, the passage of time tends to make leaving an ILIASM deal harder, not easier. That's not to say you should leave - but you do need to be aware of the fact that every additional day you stay in an ILIASM deal makes it more and more likely that you'll continue to stay. |
|
|
|
Post by angeleyes65 on Jul 12, 2020 8:41:17 GMT -5
This! I waited for my kids to grow up, waited to pay bills off (a lot of debt) I have to say that part made it easier. Then the kids were out I was still there. I finally took the leap the next month my mom had a stroke, then I had a stroke, my car died but I kept going. I moved out in June my son came back home in oct . Had I stayed I would still be there. I've been out for 3 years.
|
|
dd
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Age Range: 41-45
|
Post by dd on Jul 9, 2021 12:15:21 GMT -5
Hi all.
Long time since an update.
The quarantine year proceeded and things were... okay?
I was on some facebook sites about sexless marriages and found those to be pity parties. We've "navigated" together but still largely sexless since last year. I can count on one hand for the last year.
About 6 months ago, she started sleeping in the basement. She works some over night shifts and other reasons why, but it was to do once or twice whenever she felt she needed good sleep. It quickly went from 2-3 days a week, to 5-6 days a week, to not sleeping together for a few months.
Recently my oldest graduated high school and we couldn't agree on who to invite to the party. Wanted to invite her family and not mine because mine is too big and too messy. The Friday before she and I had an argument about mowing the lawn. I ended up doing it during my lunchbreak from my work, and then she was mad because she thought I was upset about it. I explained her, my son, or I all know how to use a lawnmower. I also pointed out that a couple years ago I had a riding lawnmower that she wanted me to sell so we'd have more garage space. When I sold it, she said she would mow the lawn which she did that first summer and hadn't since.
She becomes very controlling gets angry with me and no one else when we have these get togethers.
Last week at one point she was in this mood to pick apart the little things I do wrong, and I abruptly got up, went to my basement office for work and closed the door. She texted me later that she saw it affected me. I texted back that we go through these cycles which are essentially the cycle of abuse where things are okay, then tension builds (the longest phase that I deal with) until it gets to a point like this, and then it's good for a bit. And then "she" returns.
We agreed to get counseling and she told me to find a counselor. (she was going to last year but never moved on it. And I work 40 hours a week compared to her 30 so I have more time to do this evidently).
I wondered a bit if she was asking me to see if I'd call a bluff, but I went forward and set it up.
When I said I had an appointment set up, she said "Good, I'm looking forward to it" like I should seem scared.
The counseling place sent us each a secure login and a questionaire to fill out. I quickly did mine and saw the questions being asked.
About a day later, suddenly her attitude changed and we're in this "friendly period" where she's been "trying" to sleep in our bed and being pleasant with me. It's as if I knew exactly the point in time she looked at the questionaire and realized a third opinion would be understanding our relationship rather than just her side.
Meanwhile, on the 4th of July, I took my son golfing and get a call that her mom was stopping by that afternoon. Then also her sister in law might swing by with the kids. Suddenly my 4th turned from golf and a day off to having her whole side of the family over. This included two young children. No calls were placed to my family about possibly coming over. The "swing by" turned into a 4:00 PM to 10:30 PM event. During which, one of the little kids had a bathroom accident and walked through the house down the deck to the pool area.
The mother of the child (her sister in law) has always been a hands off parent, especially when they are at our house. It's like we're there to baby sit their kids and deal with the cleanup after they leave. Meanwhile they enjoy themselves at our pool. (And my family is the messy family?) The mother halfway apologizes to which my wife responds that one of our kids was also similar. (Not true).
This piece really annoys me because in the past she would say similar stuff. The nephew and niece show up and they are out of control. She says "Oh, our kids were like that too". Meanwhile, they 100% weren't because whenever we visited someone's house "I" was the one making sure they were well behaved. This often meant eating quickly and holding the baby so my wife could eat and socialize with her family, or me eating quickly and then dealing with the kids, making sure they weren't a bother to someone.
I feel like a rented mule.
Anyway, I'm curious where the session will go.
I feel a bit like, "Well, if you would have treated me decent for the last 10 years, I wouldn't be at this point an being in a largely sexless marriage would be more tolerable", but also at this time, I really don't want to be dealing with the same thing a year later. That would be insane.
|
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Jul 9, 2021 12:59:55 GMT -5
Hi all. I really don't want to be dealing with the same thing a year later. That would be insane. dd,...you do realize you started this thread 2 and1/2 yrs. ago, right? |
|
